Some of the time. There are those who sandbag their grades in the gym.

There are those who soften up their grades in the gym.

There are those who never climb outside so they don't actually have a yardstick to measure it by.

And then there's me. I am better with technique, and so I put something up, call it 5.10b, and everybody thinks it's an .11b. Whatever, It's just the gym. I know that squamish is NOT sandbagged. This much is true.

We have people like this too, those that say it's just technique...whatever it's still sandbagged if most people think it's harder.

No, it's not. Those people just lack the TECHNIQUE, to climb a technical 5.9 (or whatever grade you are inclined to complain about)

You are opening up an age old debate. If you are used to reachy problems that have no footwork, a technical problem will shut you down, even if it's 5.9. And vice versa.

Dyno problems shut me down.

There is also the argument of "what type of rock is it?" if you are used to granite, you could get sandbagged on sandstone, or basalt.

But there is also the fact that a technical 5.10a (or whatever fucking grade you want, it doesn't matter) is entirely different from a crack .10a, from a pumpy overhanging .10a, from a slabby .10a, or from a dynamic .10a.

Shall we continue with the list? I'm sure it goes on and on and on..........

Sandbag this and soft that, it doesn't really matter. Especially in the gym. What matters is real rock, the first ascensionist, and the local ethic.

One thing I know for sure: if there is a route that is rated 5.9, and it was put up in the 50s or in the early 60s, that's fucking NOT 5.9 by modern standards. Especially if Fred Beckey established it.

Edited for my emphasis

Ok I admit I may have jumped the gun on this one. You're right in that they may lack the technique to climb a certain grade. What irks me is when I am climbing something well below my onsight level and find it difficult, even using the correct technique, and Joe-hardman says it's just technical. That to me is a load of poo.

The "correct" technique and the technique that works are at times two different things. I don't care if you can O.S. 5.11d, using the wrong "correct" technique on a 5.9+ will probably shut you down every time.

Also, to try to get this back on track. I think the problem with sandbagging is that people sandbag using the technique excuse. For instance, a V10 climber sets a problem and calls it V3. All the V3 climbers fall on it and the V10 climber says they lack V3 technique. Assuming this isn't out of the ordinary (i.e. climber's used to climbing overhangs now trying slab), the V10 climber is probably out of touch with V3 technique and shouldn't use this excuse to sandbag.

Also, to try to get this back on track. I think the problem with sandbagging is that people sandbag using the technique excuse. For instance, a V10 climber sets a problem and calls it V3. All the V3 climbers fall on it and the V10 climber says they lack V3 technique. Assuming this isn't out of the ordinary (i.e. climber's used to climbing overhangs now trying slab), the V10 climber is probably out of touch with V3 technique and shouldn't use this excuse to sandbag.

This also happens when a climber is simply unfamiliar with a technique. You're gonna feel pretty sandbagged on a V3 that requires a certain technique you've never been exposed to, even if the problem is clearly V3 once you know that technique. I've set plenty of problems at the gym that have very easy movement, but unless you've been climbing for a while, that movement will not be obvious. What will be obvious is a much harder sequence, one that I didn't set.

Dun 'em, know what you mean.
I know it as a "full cross through".

How much the costs?
I has a... friend... who is interested...

You get sandbagged in the gym recently? Maybe you lack the technique? (tongue in cheek) But seriously, there are V-whatever problems that lack any technique, and then there are v-whatever problems where the crux has nothing to do with power, but perhaps body positioning or balance or sequence. Hence, lacking V3 technique.

Or you just got sandbagged.

This also happens when a climber is simply unfamiliar with a technique. You're gonna feel pretty sandbagged on a V3 that requires a certain technique you've never been exposed to, even if the problem is clearly V3 once you know that technique. I've set plenty of problems at the gym that have very easy movement, but unless you've been climbing for a while, that movement will not be obvious. What will be obvious is a much harder sequence, one that I didn't set.

chances are gud she cantz afford it.

Someone once tried to tell me that Open Book at Tahquitz was a sandbagged 5.9...I didn't think that was really possible since it was the first 5.9 and therefore defined the grade.