|
|
|
|
danielb
Nov 1, 2002, 2:31 PM
Post #1 of 6
(5179 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 232
|
I am thinking about giving Aid climbing a shot, my only problem is I live in Scotland where no new aid routes have been done for about 20 years and where you get lynched for using pitons (except in winter mixed climbing)
So my question is what do I need to get started trying to aid climb? My current trad lead rack is as follows:
DMM Micro Wallnuts 00, 0, 0.5, 0.75
Nuts 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
WC Rocks 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8
Camp Tricams 0.5, 0.5, 1
HB Flex Fixs 0.5, 1, 1.5
WC Tech Friend 00, 0, 2
HB Quad Cams 2.5, 3
4 x 8ft Slings
2 x 16ft Sling
1 x 8ft Daisy Chain
6 x 30cm DMM WireLock Quickdraws
7 x HB High Spec Scewgate Crabiners
6 x HB Clipper Screwgate Carbiners
2 x DMM HMS Scewgate Crabiners
15 x Wiregate Carbiners
HB Sherif
Bandolier
Nut Key
Petzl Elios Helmet
Olypus Helmet (for 2nd)
What else would I need to give a short single pitch route a go? Aiders? Do I need 1 pair or two? An acender? A pulley maybe? More small pro? How many and what makes?
I'm thinking of giving it a go in a couple local quarries where I won't be stoned by a mob for not free climbing and see if I like it or not.
My other big problem is that their are no Aid climbers in my area so can you recomend a good source of info for newbie aid climbers please?
My trad lead grade is VS 4c (i should be able to do better than that now, as that was my 2nd lead climb ever a year ago) I can lead sport routes at 5+ and toprope 6a.
As for local rock we have just about everything over here, I would have to go dig out my guidebooks to tell you...
Any comment or help would be appreciated...
DanielB
|
|
|
|
|
danielb
Nov 1, 2002, 2:35 PM
Post #2 of 6
(5179 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 232
|
Most of the climbs my area are fairly mixed, we don't seem to get the same number of really long cracks that you seem to get in the states.
Our routes are more mountainous, more broken up than the straight walls I've seen in allot of pics of Yosemitie and Desert towers. Although in our local quarries the walls are more vertical and sometimes have horizontal and vertical crack systems.
Daniel
|
|
|
|
|
passthepitonspete
Nov 4, 2002, 5:07 PM
Post #3 of 6
(5179 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2001
Posts: 2183
|
As always, please click on all the links as you read this post. It will take you to some places you may not have been yet, and will help you learn your way around the Aid Forum, and the sources of information I have already published.
First of all, if anyone is not aware of this, I have published Dr. Piton's Ultimate Big Wall Checklist here, which has everything you would need for a solo of a Grade VI big wall in the milder months of the year. It's a good point of reference whenever you are looking at what you might want to have for aid climbing.
The other point of reference is stuff you need and how to rig it.
The first thing that is worth noting is that just because you are aid climbing does not necessarily mean you need to nail anything. There are plenty of opportunities for clean climbing that do not require the use of pitons, and will save you from getting lynched by a gang of angrrrrry Scots drrressed in climbing harnesses and kilts. [Think about it, but not too hard, especially don't think about standing underneath one while he is climbing....]
Secondly your free climbing ability, should you even be able to free climb, doesn't really enter into it. It's all about how well you can place your gear, and how well you have the systems dialled. For instance, you want to know and understand how to move up on aid without blowing it. And once you are more familiar with how to aid climb, you will learn the Better Way to topstep.
Except for getting your hands on a copy of Chongo's book, you will find no better source ANYWHERE than here in the Aid Climbing Forum of RC.com. It remains my mandate to publish originally written cutting-edge big wall systems and technology originally written for free for RC.com, however Dr. Piton would not mind a paying gig. [HINT]
Try doing a word search using my username as the author, and if you can't find something, please PM me FIRST to ask if I've written it before you write a post. If it hasn't been written, then you can Ask Dr. Piton. This has nothing to do with exclusivity - anyone is free to comment on a question specifically addressed to me [however if they are smart they will wait until after I have answered...]
Chongo's book is called The Complete Book of Big Wall Climbing - Volume One - The Ground Manual, and is a fairly complete though loquacious source of information. I'm the Editor. You can click here to see some exerpts from the book, along with an interesting little story. Chongo's book does not include everything, and some of the stuff I've written since supersedes it.
Getting Chongo's book is an interesting exercise, but you can get one by mailing a $100 U.S. U.S. Postal Money Order to Chongo c/o General Delivery, Yosemite Valley, California, USA, dude. And I forget the zip code. A few people have done that, and it will eventually make its way to you. A couple people from this website have done so, and Chongo confirmed this when I spoke to him in person in September. You can click Dr. Pins - your book? for further details.
If you can get your hands on a copy of Chongo's book, which is highly recommended by Dr. Piton, and you combine it with the stuff I've written here, you will have everything you need to know about aid climbing.
There is also a book on big wall climbing by Long and Middendorf I believe, but it's sure no hell, though better than nothing. If it's still in print. I'd cough up the bucks for Chuck's book instead, though.
Your fundamental aid gear, and the gear that defines you as an aid climber, is basically:
Four aiders - two five-step and two six-step
Two Metolius adjustable daisies
One Kong Bonatti adjustable fifi rigged on slippery 6mm cord
One pair of gloves with just the fingertips cut off
A hammer for cleaning wired stoppers
Note that just because you take a hammer for cleaning does not mean you are not climbing cleanly.
Also note that just because you could get by with only one pair of aiders, and non-adjustable daisies and fifi, does not mean you should! I emphatically recommend you buy that stuff!
As far as your climbing gear is concerned, it looks like you're doing pretty well as far as wired stoppers go, but maybe you could use some more cams. When I started a cam rack, I bought the cams specific to the size of cracks I planned to climb, and worked my way up from there. You know, I plan to climb such and such a crack, therefore I'll grab some cams of this size. Chances are for now, you have pretty well all the cams you need.
You're going to need way more carabiners, mate. Buy a bunch. Can't go wrong. Look for your basic lightweight D's that are not too expensive. I've used these Lucky carabiners from Spain I believe. The Mountain Equipment Co-op in Canada sells 'em dirt cheap.
You will also need lots more nylon, but you can save some money initially by tying your own slings.
Now for the fun stuff - you need to buy some HOOKS!
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!! [DDEL]
You want to buy two Leeper Cam Hooks in the two largest sizes. The really small one is for the most part too small. These things will allow you to clean aid on very thin cracks that might otherwise only accept pins. You can set them gently with your hammer. You need to learn how to use these things!
Note: Dr. Piton himself is not the most versed in cam hooking - generally he is on wicked hard aid, and too damn chickenshit not to whack in a pin. Were he to spend more time on easier aid, he would use these things a lot more, though he did use them with considerable success on some expanding cracks on his last two walls.
You should also buy two Grappling Hooks, and two Chouinard Skyhooks. I think that's what they're called, anyway. I think I heard somewhere along the way that Yvon is no longer making gear, and that the company is now called Black something-or-other... You might even consider buying two of their Cliffhanger hooks.
On all four of these hooks, you should file the tip to a quarter-inch wide "point" - I maintain there is no benefit ever to a flat tip. This will give you three points of contact including the base "feet", and is analogous to a curved stopper.
These hooks, along with a substantial pair of balls hiding beneath your kilt, will allow you to venture into the realm where angels fear to tread.
Somewhere in this forum, I may have described the correct way to tie slings into your hooks. There IS, as per usual, a Better Way.
If you have carefully done a word search with my username in the Aid Forum, and are absolutely certain that I have never written about how to rig hooks, then you could Ask Dr. Piton. But if the post exists, someone should please link it here.
Finally, you will need to buy one regular handled ascender and one Grigri which you will use for the Better Way of cleaning an aid pitch.. Believe it or not, aid climbers have made tremendous and inventive use of a device generally used only by sport climbing weenies.
Disclaimer: If you happen to be a sport climber, do not think for a moment that Dr. Piton has hinted or implied in any way whatsover that you are also a weenie. Never for a moment would I suggest that this is exactly what you are.
You may also wish to eventually buy a Croll ascender to make yourself a Petzl Frog ascending system.
Finally, if you are at all serious about climbing big walls, you should buy yourself a proper compound pulley for hauling. While you could use nothing more than an ascender and a pulley, the compound pulley is hugely more efficient.
While you may be able to get your hands on a Wall Hauler or Traxion, there is one and ONLY one compound pulley that is not only highly recommended by Dr. Piton, but also carries the Wee-Wee the Big Wall Crab Seal of Approval, and this is the Kong Block Roll. While this device is difficult to locate, it is only a bit more expensive than the others, and HUGELY more efficient. Don't waste your money on any other compound pulley!
Note: If you have wasted your money on a compound pulley other than the Kong Block Roll, then you can incorporate it into a Far End Hauling System which you see in this photo.
Aside: I spent two fricking hours yesterday writing the caption for the Far End Hauling System photo linked above, and some little shit gave it as its first vote a "one"! Perhaps this can be remedied.
Finally, it is highly recommended by Dr. Piton you acquire a Big Wall Crab or equivalent climbing crustacean. Not only can he appear in your valid Hoser passport photo, but he is someone to cuddle on those long and lonely big wall solos.
Note: You could bring an inflatable Helga doll, too. Helga never says "no".
In a pinch, your Big Wall Crab can be used to beef up your belay anchor, and is sometimes useful in attracting hotties.
I am Dr. Piton,
and sometimes I think I really do spend too much time in this place. Sheesh.
|
|
|
|
|
danielb
Nov 5, 2002, 2:08 PM
Post #4 of 6
(5179 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 232
|
Thanks for all that info. Just two quick questions:
1. How many carbiners am I going to need(a rough figure would be good)?
2. How many singles and at what length am I going to need(again a rough figure would be better than finding out the hard way)?
DanielB
|
|
|
|
|
passthepitonspete
Nov 6, 2002, 4:21 AM
Post #5 of 6
(5179 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2001
Posts: 2183
|
If you're serious about aid climbing, you will need a pisspot full of crabs! [interesting word picture there, eh?]
Ideally, here is what you might consider doing. You have fifteen wire gates - these are crabs that will always be clipping your rope. I suppose you could put some on your cams, but I wouldn't.
I would get for starters fifteen lighweight D's to match up with them. I don't own a lot of short slings - I used shortened shoulder-length slings.
Here is your Dr. Piton Big Wall Tip of the Day:
Pay attention free climbers, this can work for you too. When you shorten up a shoulder-length sling, don't double it. Not only is it hard to lengthen, but if you do it wrong you can drop your sling!
Instead, triple your slings. Sewn slings are better than tied ones because there is no knot to catch. Clip a crab on either end of the sling, and then pass one of the crabs [plus attached sling] through the other crab, and then clip in any two strands into the crab you just passed through.
When it's time to lengthen, you merely unclip any two strands from either end, and
Voila!
Some of you will be thinking, geez - I knew that. But I guarantee there is someone out there just like me who has been climbing for ten fricking years before someone taught him the trick!
Sheesh.
So I'd grab a dozen shoulder-length anyway. On the wall you can easily double that, and still want more.
If you are soloing, you need fewer slings, for sure, since rope drag is not an issue.
You should buy a few short ones, too, that you can use as draws. But note that when you are aid climbing, you really don't use that many draws, certainly not as many as when you're free climbing. Unless you're doing a lot of aid on wires, in which case you might use more. Surprisingly, the harder big walls don't use a lot of stoppers. I always seem to bring too many.
But you can't have too many crabs! No possible way!
I would buy a bunch of Kong-Bonatti Heliums as they are super lightweight. You don't want those little buggers clipping your rope too much, though - if you fall on them the radius of the crab is small and can put extra stress on your rope. I'm not saying don't fall on them - just don't make a habit of it. If you're whipping onto sport bolts, put the Helium into the bolt and the rope into the wire gate.
I'd say you probably want fifteen of those to match the wire gates.
Next, you should really have one crab per cam.
If you rack more than one cam per crab, do not under ANY circumstance put two of the same size cams on any one crab. Maintain redundancy. Were you to drop that crab, you could be in a heap of trouble if you lost both your cams of a critical size!
I prefer one cam per crab, and when I start stealing crabs, I am very very careful never to put two cams of the same size together on any single crab.
Now if you look at my cam rack, you will see that all of my cams are colour coded! For instance, I have my green Aliens on a green-gated crab. I have hunted far and wide for cool colours. When you have forty or more cams, believe me this makes life easier. I'd recommend whenever possible colour coding your crabs. Always. It's just so much easier, and helps minimize clusterf---.
So let's see, after your fifteen shoulder-length draws are equipped, and each cam has a crab, I'd grab at least another 30 lightweight D's for starters. You are certain to need more. It is impossible to have too many! Hell, get 40.
Buy yourself some more cams. Expect to spend money.
If you are going to be an aid climber, you had best get used to spending money. Lots of money.
But just think of all the gear you get to FONDLE.....
{Dr. Piton goes crosseyed and salivates}
"Mmmmmmmmmm, fondle, fondle, fondle........"
|
|
|
|
|
bigwalling
Nov 6, 2002, 4:35 AM
Post #6 of 6
(5179 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2001
Posts: 728
|
Yeh, you will spend lots of money! It is all my money goes towards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
