Finally, I think the nicros walls with naturals are kinda lame. They get all greasy and are hard to clean, and i'ts annoying to have to avoid a natural foothold that isn't on, when it's the perfect place to smear or flag.

Likes:

Nothing about them.

Dislikes:

Everything about them.

So in your opinion should he build the gym and then burn it down or just not build it?

-untended children. Tend to those little shits!

Ok, I understand the artiste aspect, but I'm off the boat on this one. First, Nicros isn't yr only alternative for featured surfaces. Second, if as course-setter it irritates you that folks slobber r. foot out onto the smear, instead of using the proper orange chip, just define yr route by requiring tracking. Then if they stray, you can police them by shouting out embarassing comments over the PA.

Several advantages to (good) featured surfaces. First, you can put more routes and variations in a smaller space. Each line automatically has three variations: All features/feet on; tracking of set holds; and set holds for hands w. only features for feet.

Second, especially important for the n00bs, featured surfaces facilitate the transition to the Great Outdoors.

Third, featured surfaces help to compensate for poor or infrequent route-setting. I'm sure that Valarc conscientiously sets routes so that everyone from 4'4" to 6'4" can use the required holds, but you may not always be able to find/retain setters w. that level of engagement or ability.

I've seen a number of gyms in Europe that really use that approach to advantage, and it helps with efficiency-- two climbers of disparate ability can use the same rope/line, and at peak times, there's less rope-dancing required.

I've been stuck climbing in . . . English gyms for the past few months [ . ..]

There's your problem right there.

Are you saying that somehow, magically, in the rest of Europe, climbing walls with features don't have any of the problems I talked about?

Well, in most of the ones I've climbed on/at, the panels are really clean. Of course, as one poster noted above, German-speaking cultures tend to have a precision and, well, cleanliness that some others may find a bit obsessive.

The basic three-way deal--one route with everything; another with tracking; and a third mixed; just didn't seem terribly complicated to me, and it didn't seem to confuse many folks I watched. (Caveat-- I'm not talking the big features, i.e., beach balls, stalactites, etc.)

For routes 5.12 and up, and for truly difficult bouldering, it's probably easier to vary course setting and to eliminate cheating with just plain plywood and tons of changing holds. But most gym-goers aren't in that territory. That's why the best gyms I've climbed in combine the different types of wall.

The Castle seems a good example, even though it has a very un-Prussian ambiance (i.e., it's pretty disgusting). It had three segregated bouldering areas: One large one, with mostly easy routes for beginners and warm-up or cool down; a much higher featured wall downstairs; and another room with plain old plywood and lots of changeable holds for mostly harder routes.

Very functional, and many of the better Euro gyms attempt a similar approach to the lead areas.

1. crack climbing area is a good idea

If I ever find myself seriously caring about climbing gym subtleties, please remind me to blow my brains out.

Curt

Better take a gun, then, if you plan an extended trip to England.

The only problem that I've noticed is when there are two routes or problems very near each other using the same or similar colored marking tape I get all f'd up.

In addition to what folks have already written ...

Second, a few gyms I have seen have fixed Grigris. Bad. Let the customers bring and use whatever belay device they want. And make them tie in, don't give them a locking 'biner which is pretied.

Don't require anchoring the belayer, and allow the rope to move side-to-side instead of fixing it in one spot on the bar ... it's nice to be able to move around and slide the rope to keep your partner from taking big swinging falls. OK, belay anchors are nice for little girls belaying big fat guys, but don't require it. You can do an extra wrap of the rope around the bar to increase friction.

But of course, good routes are the most important thing.

There have been a number of good suggestions here, but one that immediately comes to mind: have a up-to-date board at the desk/toward the front with the location and grade of the new routes that have been set. It's such a small thing, but after moving, and going from a gym that did it to one that doesn't, I realize the simple convenience.

J