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epoch
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Nov 16, 2008, 9:45 PM
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If you are stumbling across this, you might want to reference this thread and this thread to get caught up.
On with the show...
First, let me apologize for the blurred pictures. Didn't realize that my flash/shutter was still set up for another project I was shooting.
I start by placing my double-fisherman's knot in the middle of the rope, like so:
Then around the mid-point I start to break the two halves into tiny thirds (this is where the 6 strands at the powerpoint come from):
For ease and simplicity I tie an overhand knot and feed the tail through the loop that creates one of the 'thirds':
Repeat for the other side:
It gives me this set-up for the power point. Having 6 strands allows a single biner to be used per attachment. Though fully rigged it can be a busy power point.
And that is how you get 6 strands on your power point for an equalette.
(This post was edited by epoch on Nov 17, 2008, 2:03 AM)
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billl7
Nov 16, 2008, 11:13 PM
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Regarding the limiter knots, I regularly climb with a variety of folks. When I use the equalette built "as-advertised", I'll admit that I get a lot of puzzled looks as to "Where exactly is the power point"? And "do we really need to use two biners or is a sliding 'X' okay?"
On the other hand, I do like having limiter knots where the strands between them are relatively well 'fixed' and the capsize-failure (failure of an anchor leg) is somewhat understood.
In this case and with these knots - assuming I tied them correctly - pulling on a certain two strands seems to cause slippage until the two knots come together on other strands. In a serious fall, would the slippage be enough to cause any melting?
Also, the knots seem to relatively easily shift around if one arm of the anchor fails. That could be due to the 2-on-4 nature of the knot or maybe I just need to tighten it down a little more? Maybe this shifting is no worse than a regular overhand or figure eight that capsizes?
Just some thoughts. Not sure if this amounts to whining or something more.
Bill L
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epoch
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Nov 16, 2008, 11:30 PM
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This is something that I've been playing with only recently.
I noticed that if it wasn't initially tied cleanly it could shift bringing the two strands together. However I also played with it a bit and as my knots have become tighter it becomes quite stable IMHO.
The jury is still out on this one for me. But it does eliminate the sliding x or biners on two separate strands.
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coolcat83
Nov 16, 2008, 11:43 PM
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looks like a cluster fook to me. but i can see the point
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scotty1974
Nov 17, 2008, 12:17 AM
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Looks strong, but I would never use something like that, especially on a multipitch climb...too complex. My partner would raise hell if I took the time to tie that!
Simpler is better I think. Looks safe though!
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epoch
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Nov 17, 2008, 12:52 AM
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scotty1974 wrote: Looks strong, but I would never use something like that, especially on a multipitch climb...too complex. My partner would raise hell if I took the time to tie that! Simpler is better I think. Looks safe though!
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scotty1974
Nov 17, 2008, 3:11 AM
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I should have specified multipitch trad. Pre tying would work excellent, but I would hesitate to commit gear to a pre established system. A sport climb sure. I have the trango alpine equalizer and a cordellete and I find that I mostly use my floss slings and a double length petzel runner. To my point of pretying, we are always cannabilizing our gear, so for my personal use a pre tie or carrying more gear wouldn't work.
Again this is just the way I've learned and experience tells me I don't know so much!! I've also picked up abit from my partner, and he's a bit good with the simple anchors.
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shockabuku
Nov 18, 2008, 12:36 PM
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I think your series of pix would benefit from another wide angle shot showing where the two knots go in relation to the length of the equalette.
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hafilax
Nov 18, 2008, 4:57 PM
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Is this for redundant redundancy?
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dingus
Nov 18, 2008, 5:02 PM
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What's the point of all that rope trickery?
Seriously?
DMT
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epoch
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Nov 18, 2008, 5:20 PM
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dingus wrote: What's the point of all that rope trickery? Seriously? DMT
It allows multiple power points between the limiter knots that are redundant and self-equalizing in thier own right.
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dingus
Nov 18, 2008, 5:26 PM
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Ah! Got it, thanks.
DMT
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ja1484
Nov 18, 2008, 5:43 PM
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Jesus Christ, WHY?
Three strands provides for single-biner rigging on the powerpoint. Why add all those extra knots and jiggery pokery for 6? I still don't understand the purpose of 4-strand equalettes.
Can someone please explain the purpose here to me?
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epoch
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Nov 18, 2008, 5:51 PM
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It's just a different way of doing things.
Why not? 
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Jbitz
Nov 18, 2008, 6:01 PM
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I tried the equalette and then came up with the triplette on my own, because I thought the hanging belay with a equalette was a pain. I have been using it for a year for single and multi-pitch routes and like the setup.
I would not have a problem using your rig, but I do think that a three-stranded equalette works fine. It is both redundant and a clean system. Six strands seems a little excessive.
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dingus
Nov 18, 2008, 6:30 PM
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epoch wrote: It's just a different way of doing things. Why not?
The 'why nots' are most succinctly encapsulated in the team ahead of you on that popular Yosemite classic, taking 20 to 30 minutes per belay to establish an anchor.
I know you said you can do these things lickity split and I totally believe you.
Its not YOU I'm worried about (and I'm not all that worried anyway haha); it's that guy up above us, taking 25 minutes per textbook-belay. I have a BIG problem with him....
I'm far more willing to climb right the fuck over slow teams, German-style, than ever before. The growing overhead of internet-junk and group-think solutions (to solve problems that are debatable to begin with) has really slowed down trade routing in the Valley, imo.
DMT
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tradrenn
Nov 18, 2008, 7:30 PM
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Jbitz wrote: I tried the equalette and then came up with the triplette on my own, because I thought the hanging belay with a equalette was a pain. I have been using it for a year for single and multi-pitch routes and like the setup. I would not have a problem using your rig, but I do think that a three-stranded equalette works fine. It is both redundant and a clean system. Six strands seems a little excessive.
Pics please.
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ja1484
Nov 18, 2008, 10:41 PM
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Dingus sums it up pretty succintly - speed and efficiency. This thing is more complicated than it needs to be to accomplish the goals it's designed to address.
If you like it, fine, but you can be bomber faster, and that means more pitches in a climbing day.
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j_ung
Nov 19, 2008, 12:32 AM
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test post. nothing to see here. move along.
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hafilax
Nov 19, 2008, 12:50 AM
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What is this? Passive agressive moderation?
(now that's an oxymoron)
Bluey can't handle the equalette?!
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Jbitz
Nov 19, 2008, 2:16 PM
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It's tied with a two overhand knots on each side.
I like that it does not have a double fisherman's in the anchor loops to get in the way. Anyways, it works for me.
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tradrenn
Nov 19, 2008, 8:33 PM
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I keep my DF close to overhand knot.
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hafilax
Nov 19, 2008, 9:18 PM
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The problem I see with any pre-tied equalette is that you are limiting the versatility which will require using extra slings to get extra length on one side and ending up with huge amounts of slack on the other. At least with the simple 2 strand version with overhand knots you can move the range limiting area around. At the very least I'd make the master point length much longer since the point of it is equalization. Range limiting is distantly secondary. Using a sliding-x at the master point misses the point of good equalization as well.
As for wanting all those extra strands? The probability of the cord getting cut at the master point is slim to none IMO and the cord is plenty strong as a single strand. I might consider this for an unattended toprope anchor since I build more redundancy into that situation. If I'm watching the anchor and can see that nothing funny is going on then redundancy is less of a concern.
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