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ajkclay
Nov 13, 2002, 1:23 AM
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I was talking to this guy at the crag the other day, and he was talking about a bolt at the crux of a pretty hard route, and how he saw someone actually clip the 'draw onto the rope before the bolt. Seems this would save a bit of energy on difficult climbs, anyone else done this, is it an acceptable thing to do, is it safe? Is it easier to pull up rope this way?
So many questions
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the_elk
Nov 13, 2002, 1:30 AM
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Never heard of that done before. I wonder if it really is worth it. Intriguing.
Elk
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vegastradguy
Nov 13, 2002, 1:33 AM
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Hrm. I imagine you could clip the draw at your waste on the rope, then as soon as you could reach the bolt, you could just grab the draw. Definitely save a step if you were at your limit.
It'd be weird, though, to see someone with a stack of draws clipped on the rope @ their waste, clipping the bolts as they went.
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danl
Nov 13, 2002, 1:53 AM
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Been there done that...but only on ocassion not as a force of habit.
There are two routes here where clipping the bolt/piton is a precarious affair risking ground fall and the clipping position is odd balency or strained. Thus on the big rest before the clip I place a draw oriented correctly on the rope and clip it to my belay loop. i do the move and half way through pause remove the draw and in one smooth motion clip the bolt/pin and continue on. Of note your belayer must be aware of the action and give you plenty of slack otherwise you get short roped and f*cked
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orangekyak
Nov 13, 2002, 2:04 AM
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I clip the rope first a lot when I don't have good clipping holds. I wouldn't set up more than one draw that way, could put strain on your gear loops in a fall.
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bouldertoad
Nov 13, 2002, 2:35 AM
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I have tried this once on a suggestion from a friend and found that it is not as easy as it sounds. You are pulling up all the weight of hte rope and draw combined (which really isn't that much) and it seems as though the rope makes it much more difficult to manuever the draw. It would make more sense to go ahead and pre-place the one draw that is giving you trouble or better yet just keep trying untill you can do the climb by clipping hte draw and then the rope.
I know that personally I would feel "cheated" if I used any of the tricks to redpoint a project....ie..a stick clip, pre-placing daws or clipping the draw and rope at once. Maybe I am just strange though...
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teamlurkingfear
Nov 13, 2002, 3:06 AM
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yea ... lets not do accepted things like have draws pre-hung, who wants to use a stick clip on obscene high bolts that keep route impact low, and while we are at it lets get rid of the other modern helps such as stick rubber, special shoe lasts, and fancy tech weenie clothing that we all strode in with.
E
you might also wanna try hiking to the crag instead of driving your fancy suv...afterall, people used to do that before we drove every where
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phil_nev
Nov 13, 2002, 3:22 AM
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I actualy saw a detailed write up this site a while ago regarding this technique. From memory, It actualy involved havving all the draws clipped directly to the rope and gear loops, the when coming to a clip just unclipping the bottom on and clipping the bolt. It sounded weird to me and i have never tried it, i'm sure if you could find the forum it was posted in it would be more specific with details..
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djmicro
Nov 13, 2002, 6:09 AM
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We also tried that at one stage, but we went back to the old method. The problem was that you don't really have control of the rope if it is not directly in your hand. The friction/drag is also a problem.
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shiloj
Nov 13, 2002, 6:18 AM
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its a good technique, if you are careful. i've only used it on a very pumpy crux clip, where i literally felt i could come off at any time.
clip the low biner through the rope and the bolt-end biner onto your gear-loop. its VERY IMPORTANT to make sure its oriented the right way so you don't backclip! practice on the ground.
now, instead of reaching down twice (once to grab the draw, clip it on the bolt, and again to get the rope in) you only have to reach down once.
or, like my partner said when he saw me do it: "you could just get stronger!"
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wildtrail
Nov 13, 2002, 7:51 AM
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Sounds like a good idea if you're losing your ropegun.
Steve
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rockprodigy
Nov 13, 2002, 8:37 PM
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A few years ago someone was selling these quickdraws that only had one 'biner, the other end of the draw was a solid ring. You were supposed to thread them on the rope before you tied in, then just clip them on the bolts as you went up. Obviously they never caught on.... If you're clipping the rope first, you better have zero rope drag and a thin rope, or be clipping below your waste.
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wlderdude
Nov 13, 2002, 11:30 PM
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You could clip the free end of the quick draw into your belay loop instead of the gear loop. You aint' gunna be rippin' that thing off!
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quickclips
Nov 13, 2002, 11:54 PM
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You could clip a number of draws to the rope and harness, alternating sides so you don't grab the wrong one. But....if you clip the rope first then fall you could end up having the draw sliding down the rope to the next clip, then you're out a draw. So if you try it make sure you have extra draws.
Chris
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overlord
Nov 29, 2002, 3:20 PM
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yes, kinda hard to do it with lots of rope drag. must be useful on some occasions, as most thing in climbing, though
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bighigaz
Nov 29, 2002, 3:34 PM
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My buddy tried this once, couldn't make the clip, so he clipped the draw back to his gear loop while still on the rope... NOT a good idea. He took a nice little whipper that ripped the gear loop from his harnes and sent MY draw spinning into oblivion. I just prefer the old fassioned way.
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leon0tron
Nov 29, 2002, 3:42 PM
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Ive done a similar thing trad climbing. A few times Ive been on a route and as Ive gotten to the crux, I seen the next place for pro but peeled off before getting a nut in. Then before I go for it again I'll put one or two nuts on the draw and clip it to my central loop. Then when I get back to the same spot I slot in the right nut, clip the draw and take off the other nut then climb on. Makes it a little easier
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wv5ten
Nov 29, 2002, 4:06 PM
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sucks about your draws bighigaz :/
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nikegirl
Nov 29, 2002, 4:16 PM
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That's what I see when I would invision this tecnique being done...
unclipping from the loop, and watching the draw spin down to the last bolt.
Second...my mind games, I think would come to play... trying to take that clip from the loop to the bolt...hoping it was on the rope, and not still on the loop of my harness... or not making the clip, oh my oh my! head games. I have them a lot.
makes my hands sweat to think about it.
.
seems I wouldn't want to make this a habit. To out of the routine for me...It'd prolly mess up the flow.
~T
*see: this is what my mind does, on lead.
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talons05
Dec 20, 2002, 4:56 AM
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Danl mentioned it earlier, and I have been in the same situation. Sometimes, the bolt is in an awkward position, but just before the clip, you can clip your rope, thus making the placement go much smoother.
A.W.
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buttets
Dec 20, 2002, 5:36 AM
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Yes, I too have used this method more than once for hard clips or when I know that I'm going to be at my limits. But, my harness has two strips of velcro sewen near the front of the harness. When I get to the bolt I just rip it off and clip. You have to be sure everything is aligned ahead of time. Screw it up you better grab the draw and straighten it out...
There is a chance of having it pull off by itself and slide down the rope so I do have extra quickdraws on my harness, but I have yet to have that happen.
A lot of times I will take the draw off my harness and just put it in my mouth so that I can grab it quickly and clip. Not as fast as already having the rope attached but it makes the clip a lot easier...
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antimatter
Dec 20, 2002, 7:20 PM
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I don't like the whole gear loop ripping idea either though I have used this technique on occasion. I also used to place the rope or draws in my teeth to facilitate clipping but that's not such a good idea either (see google threads on climbing and dental work).
The only trick I use now is to pre-clip the draw into the neckline of my shirt, that's enough help. If I can't make the clip with that trick, then I just need to get stronger/better before attempting the redpoint.
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drector
Dec 20, 2002, 7:38 PM
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The closest I've come to this is to have a cam and QD preconnected and in my mount for the hard trad placement. It was a placement from a lockoff. This seems like a similar trick but I've never seen or heard of it before now.
Dave
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mreardon
Dec 20, 2002, 7:42 PM
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I actually watched one climber pre-clip the rope through all his draws on his harness. Obviously he knew exactly which hand he was using for each draw. Looked strange, but he claimed it was easier. I asked him what happens in a fall, to which he responded by taking one. The fall was only an extra foot and everything on the harness was still in place. I still think it was a bit odd and it has never worked for me (the drag on the rope is harder than clipping bolt/clipping rope routine in my opinion). But to each their own.
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t-dog
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Dec 20, 2002, 8:23 PM
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I've tried this before, when I was starting out climbing and very scared of making clips. IT works ok if you're clipping at your waist or low but is really bad if you are clipping high as the drag of the rope on the biner sucks. Also, i've only done this for a single draw at a time, doing it for multiple ones seems like it would be very confusing and prone to me you screw up
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