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chris_sansum
Feb 10, 2009, 8:12 PM
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Do any of you out there use the Silent Partner? I'm a climber based in the UK and thought I'd post on this forum since the Silent Partner is pretty rare in the UK.
I'm interested to hear whether users of this device always tie the backup knots when they use it? The manual suggests that these are essential, but I'm wondering whether other climbers follow the instructions to the letter in this respect? It could be that the manufacturer is saying to always use them to cover themselves, and I'm thinking maybe there are situations where it would be over the top to tie multiple backup knots, eg where the rock is steep enough that the device is pretty much certain to kick in. I guess on low angle but technical rock it could be sensible to tie backups, as there would be a chance of not accelerating quickly enough during a fall for the device to kick in.
I'm sure it is sensible to always tie the end of the rope into the harness, but I'm considering whether it is overkill to tie backups every few metres. It is time-consuming to tie these, and can add a lot onto the overall time for a multi-pitch climb, so I'm interested to hear what other people do.
Thanks,
Chris
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durangoclimber
Feb 10, 2009, 8:17 PM
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I don't tie them on shorter ( ie: 1 pitch ) stuff, but ask my wife...I don't follow directions too well.
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Tree_wrangler
Feb 10, 2009, 10:25 PM
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In reply to: Do any of you out there use the Silent Partner?
It's my primary climbing partner. Probably because I'm intolerable in person.
In reply to: I'm interested to hear whether users of this device always tie the backup knots when they use it?
Yes. I usually only have one at a time though. You'll find that if you let the whole rope-length dangle below you, the weight makes the device feed poorly.
For a brief period, the recommended multiple loops drove me nuts, and I stopped tying a backup religiously. Then I read a story on this site (firsthand account) of a dude who took a long fall, and snapped BOTH of the lockers holding his belay device to his harness. His backup knot saved his life. He was using a GriGri, I'm not....but so what?
In reply to: but I'm wondering whether other climbers follow the instructions to the letter
Not exactly. The manufacturers state (personal web communication, a few years ago) that the device is really designed for multi-pitch big wall stuff. So, they're used to the loops hanging free. In my area, most of the routes are <200' spires with lots of underclings, etc...so the loops caught on everything. I found a happy, and safe, medium.
In reply to: I'm thinking maybe there are situations where it would be over the top to tie multiple backup knots, eg where the rock is steep enough that the device is pretty much certain to kick in.
I've taken a couple good falls on it. It is surely solid. But, see the above reference to the dude who broke two biners. Apparently, the issue may not be whether or not the device "grabs", but whether or not the biners can take the force. I'm sure it's device dependent, but maybe not. For the record, I believe the "broken biner incident" to be a very, very, very, rare exception to the rule, but what do I know?
In reply to: I'm sure it is sensible to always tie the end of the rope into the harness
Not really, unless you're so far up a wall that the end of the rope becomes just another backup knot. If, like me, you're climbing a 200' spire with a backup knot already on, what's the point? It just creates another giant dragging loop.
So, here's my system.
I use a rope bag. Get one. Period. It will absolutely eliminate a lot of the rope-tangle nightmares that occur on the ground, beginning a first pitch. And, the bag can be clipped off to a piece of gear or bolt to ensure that it stays in an upright position, etc.
then, I DON"T flake out the entire rope, and tying like 5-10 backup loops all at once (you'd have to be crazy to think it's acceptable to climb with that clusterfuck dragging between your feet.)
Anyhow, I just tie one backup loop between myself and the ropebag. And, I make sure that it's long enough to allow me to reach a safe stance, bolt, etc.
Then, when I reach said stance, I either adjust the backup clove, or retie it for the next little jaunt up.
That way, I'm only dragging ONE loop behind me, and, because the loop is there to take the weight of your "feed rope" off of the clove on the device.
Occasionally, if I'm feeling like things might get too iffy for retying the backup knot for a while, I'll add a second, and proceed with the usual process.
Hopefully that helps.
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ptlong
Feb 11, 2009, 12:28 AM
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Chris, type "silent partner" or "rope solo" into the search box and you'll find plenty to read. Healyje has an interesting system using the Eddy device.
For what little it's worth I do more or less what Tree_wrangler described. I never tie into the end of the rope. I keep one backup knot going and the distance between me and the knot depends.
The Grigri accident that Tree_wrangler referred to did not involve the breaking of two locking carabiners. The Grigri only accepts one. That guy was using a regular aluminum locker and it probably got crossloaded when he took a factor 2 onto it. His backup knot saved him.
But the point is still the same as far as I'm concerned. The Silent Parnter is a mechanical device and something weird could happen to it. It's known to have issues when cold, icy or muddy. You can't directly inspect the works. I personally do not 100% trust it, so I back it up.
My biggest issue with the thing is that it binds if the rope is a little old and fuzzy. Gotta have a slinky new cord to enjoy climbing with it.
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xtrmecat
Feb 11, 2009, 3:59 PM
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Chris, I also rope solo, a lot. Tree wranglers method is very close to mine also. I never ever go without a backup knot, and have had a failed lockup of a device take me to the backup knot. I'm still here, and still solo.
I also have seen personal tetimony of a silent partner that got grit in the mechanism, although hard to do it happens, and the device randomly would not lock. The device was cleaned and inspected by the maker and returned to use. If not using a backup let that run through your mind a half pitch or more up pulling the crux of something.
Bob
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moose_droppings
Feb 11, 2009, 4:23 PM
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Not to sound like a broken record here but, I climb mostly roped solo and I also use one backup knot in my system at a time. I've never used a silent partner, but have used 3 other devices and still always used a backup knot.
In the handful of falls I've taken its never come down to the backup knot, but I still stack the deck in my favor by using them. You really should too.
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chris_sansum
Feb 11, 2009, 6:46 PM
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Thanks for all the replies and explanations. Yes it makes sense to tie 1 backup clove hitch rather than tying into the end of the rope and tying multiple backups.
Similarly I'm not climbing Yosemite big walls which are snag-free - I'm usually climbing in a forested area with lots of trees, rocks and other things to snag on, so the less chance of that the better.
Actually the only problem I've experienced so far is a user error - I clipped a quickdraw into the lead rope, but didn't notice I had pulled the quickdraw through the middle of one of the backup loops hanging from my harness. So after ascending for a while the loop caught on the quickdraw and I couldn't go up any more! Luckily this was on easy grade stuff when I was trying the device out so I could down-climb, but it is something to watch out for.
Tree Wrangler: I'm interested to hear that you use a rope bag clipped into a piece of gear (presumably you leave the bag at the belay then carry it when you jug back up the rope).
I guess this means you're carrying less weight as you lead. It could lead to a bit more rope drag, but the fact you've lost the weight off your back must be a bonus. As it is I've been climbing wearing a small backpack which I've flaked the rope into, but it is quite heavy, and the weight will probably lower the grade I can climb. I'll try leaving the backpack at the anchor with the rope flaked into it next time.
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Tree_wrangler
Feb 11, 2009, 8:21 PM
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In reply to: Tree Wrangler: I'm interested to hear that you use a rope bag clipped into a piece of gear (presumably you leave the bag at the belay then carry it when you jug back up the rope).
To date, I've not climbed anything high enough that required me to bring the rope back up with me. I've done a couple 2 or 3 pitch climbs, but so far, they've been just about 200' or less.
In those cases, I usually do the entire route in one long pitch. If I feel like I need to alleviate some drag in the system (like the ever lengthening rope to the anchor), I'll tie in short to the mid-route anchors as I pass them with a butterfly or directional eight.
The manufacturer recommends using a shoelace, or something very weak for that application, suggesting that, while the shoelace would take some of the rope-weight off of your device, it would still allow your primary anchor, and the maximum amount of rope paid out to catch your fall.
But, I'm usually on bolt anchors, so the mid route anchors are bombproof, and I frequently end up with 50' paid out anyhow. I've taken a fall with only 15' paid out and, while I was a little sore the next morning, everything seemed to work like a charm.
The rope bag for me has had it's best utility in preventing debris on the ground from catching in loops of rope (once I had like a 2 mm stick gum up the whole works), and, unlike even a very carefully flaked pile of rope, it always feeds out perfectly.
If I was on a big multipitch, it would be a toss up. I might stack the rope through a sling, or, if I though that the situation provided a risk of stuck ropes then, yes, I'd restack the rope in the rope bag.
If a full rope length climb doesn't have an opportunity to rap off with one rope, remember that you'll get the opportunity to return to the bottom to untie from your anchor and jug or reclimb the pitch (I usually reclimb, using the SP as a toprope self-belay.....it's faster...and fun). It's not uncommon for me to eat a sandwich, water the dog, etc. when I return to the belay.....In any case, my point was that you can always haul a second rope up with you on the return if you need it to rap off the top anchors.
Good luck. It took some practice, and I can't climb to my limit with the device, but I've really taken a shining to roped soloing.....there's just something....nice....about your own pace.
Clusters happen. Be mentally prepared for downclimbing, setting gear anchors and rapping part way back down, etc., to clear jammed rope, etc. Practice can alleviate this, but.....given the potential problems, I choose to believe that clipping a daisy into a good bolt and hanging, or grabbing a draw is fair play when soloing.
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xtrmecat
Feb 12, 2009, 3:49 AM
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Again what tree wrangler said, almost to a tee. I always flake the rope out on the deck and just climb with the weight of the rope between me and the deck times two. If I am going over a half rope length but not extra pitches I also tag a line off the back, and then clean on rap, same as you would expect a second to do.(tag a rope)
If doing multi pitch, which usually uses two rope raps, I have a Snake Charmer by Fish. Cannot say enough about this being the shizzzzz. I have a Metolious and a BD bag and numerous packs, and have tried all sorts of rope hooks, stacking and slinging stacks, and nothing else is even close. Quality bag purpose built for the soloist. Nothing else is even in the same league.
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moose_droppings
Feb 12, 2009, 4:43 AM
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For a rope bag you can just find a lite nylon backpack and flake the rope into it. You can find them cheap at second hand stores.
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