|
NJSlacker
Apr 28, 2009, 12:23 PM
Post #1 of 29
(31816 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2008
Posts: 212
|
Hey all.
I've been climbing for a few years, but just recently got new shoes. For my first pair, I really had no idea what I was looking for and ended up getting a pair of clown shoes with space in the toe box and heel. My new pair is a perfect fit (and three sizes smaller) but after wearing them for a few weeks now I'm concerned about developing ingrown toenails. I have skin around my bigtoe-nail that really gets pressed into the nail when i wear these shoes, and I don't want it to get any worse.
has anyone had similar experiences, or advice to avoid this?
|
|
|
|
|
wonderwoman
Apr 28, 2009, 3:20 PM
Post #2 of 29
(31766 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
|
Keep your toe nails as short as possible. That's what I do. God, I hate my toes! 
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Apr 28, 2009, 3:55 PM
Post #3 of 29
(31748 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
I had repeated episodes of ingrown toenails (big toes only) until I stopped cutting them so short and let them grow out past the end of the nail bed (and kept them out there).
I go through socks more often but I noticed with delight that the 'toe bash' problems I used to have (down hill walking, accidently kicking a rock on the trail, etc. - causing excruciating toe pain) vanished with longer toenails.
Nails are tough. They are like, supposed to protect the toes? Its their job to 'take the punch.' Cutting them too short turns the flesh at the ends of your toes into battering rams.
Longer, not shorter, was my prescription.
YMMV
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Apr 28, 2009, 3:59 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
wonderwoman
Apr 28, 2009, 5:08 PM
Post #4 of 29
(31717 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
|
I guess that once you lose the nail, the ends of your toes automatically become battering rams. At least that was the case for me. Now short is the only way for me to go. Damn toes!
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Apr 28, 2009, 5:16 PM
Post #5 of 29
(31711 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
One tip is to not cut your toenails in a curve. Rather cut them straight across.
|
|
|
|
|
xtrmecat
Apr 28, 2009, 5:28 PM
Post #6 of 29
(31702 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 548
|
I know what not to do. Get some cheap, on sale boots to do a wall in. Make sure they are cheap, and at least one size too small, and then put on thick socks, and climb away. In no time you need not worry about ingrown toenails on your big toes, or even the ones next to em.
From my Feb. Zion trip.
Meant as humor only, it seems I am never too old to learn the hard way.
Bob
(This post was edited by xtrmecat on Apr 28, 2009, 5:30 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
styndall
Apr 28, 2009, 6:29 PM
Post #7 of 29
(31668 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 2741
|
NJSlacker wrote: Hey all. I've been climbing for a few years, but just recently got new shoes. For my first pair, I really had no idea what I was looking for and ended up getting a pair of clown shoes with space in the toe box and heel. My new pair is a perfect fit (and three sizes smaller) but after wearing them for a few weeks now I'm concerned about developing ingrown toenails. I have skin around my bigtoe-nail that really gets pressed into the nail when i wear these shoes, and I don't want it to get any worse. has anyone had similar experiences, or advice to avoid this?
I've found that cutting a triangle out of the center of the toenail keeps me from developing ingrown nails. I keep the whole nail very short, and then trim a wedge out of the center edge. It hurts a bit and sometimes bleeds, but it's way better than an ingrown nail.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Apr 28, 2009, 6:50 PM
Post #8 of 29
(31652 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
bill413 wrote: One tip is to not cut your toenails in a curve. Rather cut them straight across.
Yup I do this as well.
Net net? I can kill you with my toenails.
Sammi: "Dang Pop, those toenails of yours look lethal!"
Pop: "Ha SAH!"
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
angry
Apr 28, 2009, 7:06 PM
Post #9 of 29
(31631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
Other than the typical sore toes that climbing causes, I've never had much issue.
Running however, ugh. I used to be under the misguided assumption that my running shoes should be snug and I trained for marathons in them. Suffice to say, I lost a lot of toenails. Depending on the time, for about 6 years I varied from 5-9 total toenails due to running. I even lost my whole big toenail once.
What I noticed is that my climbing shoes were more comfortable without toenails. The only drawback I ever had was the ultra sensitive skin on top of the toe where the toenail should have been sometimes needed tape. Other than that, I preferred climbing without toenails. If the vet would declaw me, I'd let him.
I have all my nails now and they don't hurt me anymore. I think maybe all these years in climbing shoes has numbed up the painful parts or reshaped my feet.
Even in tight shoes and toenails growing back, I never got bad ingrown toenails. Nothing 3 beers, a pocket knife, and some cable cutters couldn't fix anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Apr 28, 2009, 7:19 PM
Post #10 of 29
(31625 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
angry wrote: Nothing 3 beers, a pocket knife, and some cable cutters couldn't fix anyway.
They don't make the ingrown toenail what can't be fixed by that!
BTW, that was my standard treatment. But I haven't had one now in years.
Longer nails don't bother me climbing and I assumed they would. Quite the opposite in my case. But admittedly I am not wearing 3-size too small cruel shoes either. I see no point in such footwear. Its aid, really.
Cheers
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
wonderwoman
Apr 28, 2009, 7:27 PM
Post #11 of 29
(31615 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
|
angry wrote: If the vet would declaw me, I'd let him
Me, too! I've pretty much kissed open toed shoes goodbye.
I don't know if you guys necessarily have that problem, though...
|
|
|
|
|
angry
Apr 28, 2009, 7:33 PM
Post #12 of 29
(31610 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
wonderwoman wrote: angry wrote: If the vet would declaw me, I'd let him Me, too! I've pretty much kissed open toed shoes goodbye. I don't know if you guys necessarily have that problem, though...
I'm wearing Evolve flip flops right now
|
|
|
|
|
ladyrockstar
Apr 28, 2009, 7:51 PM
Post #13 of 29
(31593 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 26
|
My doctor did "declaw' me. I had ingrown toenails for years, and my doctor finally removed them totally. It was the best surgery I ever had done. No more ingrown nails! Of course, if you drop something on them, you remember why the nails were there
|
|
|
|
|
ladyrockstar
Apr 29, 2009, 2:52 AM
Post #15 of 29
(31523 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 26
|
I don't think it's considered elective surgery, because I'm on Medicaid, and they paid for it, and they don't like to pay for elective surgery. I'm not sure what it cost. It was really needed, as I could barely walk. My toenails would get ingrown, then turn dark purple and fall off, and almost instantly, they'd be ingrown again. I only had the two big toes done, as the rest weren't a problem.
The surgery was done on an outpatient basis, and I think I was at the hospital about six or seven hours. They gave me a general anesthetic, but I wasn't sleeping long. I was supposed to stay off them for a couple weeks, but I had a graduate wetland ecology field trip the next day, so I went on it. We spent the day standing in swamp, and in a few days, both toes were infected. Healing probably took a bit longer because of that. Even so, if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't hesitate, because I now walk ten- to fifteen-mile days quite often, as well as climbing, and I know I couldn't be doing that if I still had those nails.
|
|
|
|
|
PigsOnDrugs
Apr 29, 2009, 2:56 AM
Post #16 of 29
(31522 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 7, 2009
Posts: 55
|
yea Therese been all day sessions were when im done i could almost literally peel the nail right off the toe >.>
|
|
|
|
|
DaveEscobar
Apr 29, 2009, 5:48 PM
Post #17 of 29
(31466 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2009
Posts: 26
|
definitely longer. let the 2 corners grow out so you can see them past the skin. This way they cant grow in. Don't cut a V in your toenail it doesn't really do anything. The reason it works sometimes is because people leave the sides of their nails longer. If it's not to bad yet try soaking it in water then putting something under the nail to force it up. I used a rolled up piece of gauze. This is what I've done and it's been helping.
Also When climbing i out some tape on my big toes to keep he skin back. That has helped a lot too.
Good luck and most importantly keep it clean. Ingrowns can get infected easily.
|
|
|
|
|
kai_da_klimba
Apr 29, 2009, 6:08 PM
Post #18 of 29
(31455 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 30
|
If you have somewhat badly ingrown toenails, experimenting with the front edge (short or long) won't help you, because it actually is the sides of the nail that cause you the pain.
I haven't tried the V-slot yet, but it sounds a bit brutal. However, I believe it works by the same principle that the method I use and recommend does: taking pressure off the sides of the nail.
I file the top (not the tip) of the nail flat, thereby thinning the nail in the middle and relieving the pressure on the side. I suggest experimenting with the amount of nail you file away, surprisingly little may already give you the desired result, and too much may result in the nail eventually breaking there (just ugly, haven't overdone it into painful)...
This makes a HUGE difference for me, I basically have to do it or can't wear my climbing shoes for more than minutes.
|
|
|
|
|
altelis
Apr 29, 2009, 6:30 PM
Post #19 of 29
(31436 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168
|
for whatever kind of resource it is, this is from Epodiatry.com
What is an ingrown toenail:
An ingrown toenail (onychocryptosis) occurs when part of the nail penetrates the skin, which can often result in an infection. The ingrown nail can also apply pressure in the nail fold area without penetrating the skin - this is not technically an ingrown toe nail, but can also be painful (a corn/callus is also common down the side of the nail and is a reaction to this pressure, rather than the nail actually penetrating the skin).
What does an ingrown toe nail (onychocryptosis) look like:
Usually the side of the nail penetrates deep and it is difficult to see the edge of the nail. The severity of appearance of the nail will vary. Some will just have a nail that appears deeply embedded down the side or sides of the nail. In some the corner or a small spike of nail may penetrate the skin, just like a knife. This can result in an infection and the development of proud flesh (granulation tissue). The toe will then be red, inflamed and painful.
Infected ingrown toe nail ingrown toe nail treatment
What are the symptoms of in ingrown toenail (onychocryptosis):
Pain is the main symptom of an ingrown toe nail - usually just starting as some minor discomfort. This may be just the pressure from the side of the nail or it may be because the nail has actually penetrated the skin down the side of the nail. The toe is not necessarily infected, but this can develop after the nail penetrate the skin to become ingrown. The infection can spread, making the toe red and inflamed (paronychia). A collection of pus may also develop.
What causes an ingrown nail (onychocryptosis):
Poor cutting of the nail is most commonly blamed as being the cause of an ingrown toe nail, but this is not necessarily the case. The following factors are involved in the cause of ingrown toenails (onychocryptosis):
* the primary risk factor is the shape of the nail - a nail that is more curved from side to side rather than being flat is more likely to become an ingrown nail (incurvated nails). Some nails go down the side into the nail fold area for a relatively large distance. A large portion of the nail is almost vertical rather than being horizontal. The most severe of these types of nail is called a 'pincer nail' in which both side of the nail are very curved. The shape of the nail is usually inherited (congenital), but it can be influenced by trauma and/or shoe pressure.
* poor cutting of these types of nails can leave a sharp corner (or if worse, a small spike) that will initially cause symptoms by putting pressure on the skin and then later penetrate the skin. Trimming too far down the sides is a common cause of an ingrown toe nail.
* footwear that is tighter is more likely to increase pressure between the skin in the nail fold and nail, increasing the risk on an ingrown nail.
* previous trauma to the nail may alter the shape of the nail, making it more prone to becoming an ingrown nail
* pressure from the toe next to the nail that has ingrown can sometime be a factor
* a 'chubby' or fleshy toe is more likely to have a nail grow into it. Those whose feet swell are a lot are more prone to having this happen.
Self treatment of the ingrown nail (onychocryptosis):
The cornerstone of self treatment and prevention of ingrown toe nails involves cutting the nail straight across to allow the corners to protrude, so that they do not penetrate the skin. Cut the toe nails straight across without tapering the corners. However, this can be difficult if the nail is very curved down the side. In this case DO NOT 'dig' down the sides - seek professional help for this (see below).
It is a myth that a V should be cut in the end of the nail to treat an ingrown toe nail. The apparent reasoning behind this is that if you cut a V in the nail, the edge of the nail will grow together as the nail grows out. This does not happen - the shape of the nail is determined by the growing area at the base of the toe, not the end.
Avoid wearing shoes and socks that are too tight.
Keep feet clean to prevent the ingrown nail from becoming infected.
Those with poor circulation or diabetes should not do any self management of ingrown toenails but see a Podiatrist. See below to find a Podiatrist.
See below for how a Podiatrist would manage an ingrown toenail (onychocryptosis).
Podiatric treatment of the ingrown nail (onychocryptosis):
Initial treatment of the ingrown nail (onychocryptosis):
*
Antibiotics are often used to treat the infected ingrown toenail, but don't forget that the cause of the infected (the ingrown nail) is still there, so there is not a lot of point in treating the infection while the cause remains. Sometimes antibiotics are used to help the infection clear after the nail has been removed.
* A skilled Podiatrist can easily remove the corner or spike that has penetrated the skin, often with relatively little discomfort. If the ingrown nail is too painful, a local anesthetic may be needed to do this. Don't forget that unless the offending piece of nail that is causing the ingrown toe nail is removed, the infection is likely to persist.
* After this some antiseptic dressing for a few days is all that is needed to clear up the infection, especially if you are healthy and have no healing problems. Antibiotics and/or prolonged period of dressings are needed, especially if there is a problem with wound healing or if the circulation is poor or if you have diabetes.
* Occasionally, after the above treatment if the pain persist - this may be due to there being another spike of nail deeper down causing the ingrown toenail.
Ongoing treatment of the ingrown toenail (onychocryptosis):
*
Ingrown toe nails have a great tendency to happen again. They happen in the first place because of a number of reasons - the most common of those reasons is the shape to the nail. Generally, this is if the nail is curved down the side. With good self treatment (see above), it may be possible to prevent it reoccurring.
*
Regular treatment by a Podiatrist can often be needed, as a conservative approach to prevent the nail becoming a problem is can be recommended.
Surgical treatment of the ingrown toe nail (onychocryptosis):
* if the ingrown nail is severe, or if conservative care is difficult, or if the ingrown toenail does not respond well to conservative care, then minor surgical intervention is a good option. Minor surgery is a relatively simple procedure and is very successful for long term relief that is permanent.
* a number of different minor surgical procedures can be used by a Podiatrist to treat an ingrown toe nail. Almost all of these are done in the office under a local anesthetic.
* the most common procedure is the removal of a portion of the nail down the side of the nail that is causing the problem. In the worst case of a total nail which is curved, it may be necessary to remove the entire nail.
* After a nail or part of the nail is removed, it will grow back as the growing cells at the base of the nail are still there, unless something is done to remove them. Most commonly an acid is used to destroy the growing cells to prevent regrowth. Other options to prevent it growing back include, surgically debriding the growing area or using a laser. For some reason a few percent do reoccur.
* Generally, after the surgery you will need to keep your foot elevated for a few hours and rest is advisable. The following day, you can return to work or school. It is advisable not to take part in vigorous activities, such as running for 2 weeks after the surgery. The use of an open toe shoe, so that there is no pressure on the area also facilitates healing.
|
|
|
|
|
angry
Apr 29, 2009, 6:40 PM
Post #20 of 29
(31428 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
dingus wrote: angry wrote: Nothing 3 beers, a pocket knife, and some cable cutters couldn't fix anyway. They don't make the ingrown toenail what can't be fixed by that! BTW, that was my standard treatment. But I haven't had one now in years. Longer nails don't bother me climbing and I assumed they would. Quite the opposite in my case. But admittedly I am not wearing 3-size too small cruel shoes either. I see no point in such footwear. Its aid, really. Cheers DMT
Dingus, I don't wear super tight shoes too often so we're not in opposition in practice. Still, I disagree with you here. Once you've made the leap to wearing shoes that help you climb, it's not really any worse to use shoes that help you climb better is it?
Of course once all the Gecko fiber shoes get completed and fat kids from Highlands Ranch are soloing The Naked Edge on class field trips, well, I'll be pretty pissed.
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Apr 29, 2009, 6:42 PM
Post #21 of 29
(31420 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Apr 29, 2009, 6:49 PM
Post #22 of 29
(31406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
angry wrote: dingus wrote: angry wrote: Nothing 3 beers, a pocket knife, and some cable cutters couldn't fix anyway. They don't make the ingrown toenail what can't be fixed by that! BTW, that was my standard treatment. But I haven't had one now in years. Longer nails don't bother me climbing and I assumed they would. Quite the opposite in my case. But admittedly I am not wearing 3-size too small cruel shoes either. I see no point in such footwear. Its aid, really. Cheers DMT Dingus, I don't wear super tight shoes too often so we're not in opposition in practice. Still, I disagree with you here. Once you've made the leap to wearing shoes that help you climb, it's not really any worse to use shoes that help you climb better is it? Of course once all the Gecko fiber shoes get completed and fat kids from Highlands Ranch are soloing The Naked Edge on class field trips, well, I'll be pretty pissed.
I was just yankin the ole chalk is aid chain angry. Don't mind me dude.
Anything other than naked free solo (which I automatically give you credit for at least one of these) is the only non-aid form of climbing when it comes right down to it.
Cheers
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
Adk
Apr 29, 2009, 8:31 PM
Post #23 of 29
(31376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2006
Posts: 1085
|
DaveEscobar wrote: definitely longer. let the 2 corners grow out so you can see them past the skin. This way they cant grow in. Don't cut a V in your toenail it doesn't really do anything. The reason it works sometimes is because people leave the sides of their nails longer. If it's not to bad yet try soaking it in water then putting something under the nail to force it up. I used a rolled up piece of gauze. This is what I've done and it's been helping. Also When climbing i out some tape on my big toes to keep he skin back. That has helped a lot too. Good luck and most importantly keep it clean. Ingrowns can get infected easily.
I used to have a big problem when I was a teen and even had surgery where they cut the nail all the way back on the affected side, in my case it was both sides of one toe to the nail "root"?? Then they burned it with some acid. The nail never grew back there again. I sometimes have a slight problem with the other foot but have become a pro doing as stated above. "Vs" cut in the nail don't work. Old wives tail they are.
One toe nail is wider than the other as a result of the corrective procedure.
|
|
|
|
|
agdavis
Apr 29, 2009, 9:15 PM
Post #24 of 29
(31353 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 7, 2009
Posts: 310
|
Adk wrote: DaveEscobar wrote: definitely longer. let the 2 corners grow out so you can see them past the skin. This way they cant grow in. Don't cut a V in your toenail it doesn't really do anything. The reason it works sometimes is because people leave the sides of their nails longer. If it's not to bad yet try soaking it in water then putting something under the nail to force it up. I used a rolled up piece of gauze. This is what I've done and it's been helping. Also When climbing i out some tape on my big toes to keep he skin back. That has helped a lot too. Good luck and most importantly keep it clean. Ingrowns can get infected easily. I used to have a big problem when I was a teen and even had surgery where they cut the nail all the way back on the affected side, in my case it was both sides of one toe to the nail "root"?? Then they burned it with some acid. The nail never grew back there again. I sometimes have a slight problem with the other foot but have become a pro doing as stated above. "Vs" cut in the nail don't work. Old wives tail they are. One toe nail is wider than the other as a result of the corrective procedure.
I had the same procedure done. For me once they did this, the pain never came back. If you go to a Podiatrist and not a General Practitioner, this is what they will do. (More sophisticated GP's may, but I have had bad experiences...)
As for insurance, ingrown toe treatment is definitely NOT elective surgery. The general rule of thumb for determining if something is 'elective' or not, is whether or not the said condition degrades your quality of life. If your toenails are causing pain, your insurance company must pay for it.
|
|
|
|
|
ScarpaScarpa
May 3, 2009, 7:40 AM
Post #25 of 29
(31222 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2009
Posts: 59
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
