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Builderdash


Jul 2, 2009, 1:41 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
ravelledfleeces wrote:
I'm a female climber who's just under 5'1" and after 6 months of climbing (3-4 times a week indoors, outdoor bouldering biweekly) I feel I'm plateauing at 5.10 - 5.11 and V3 - V4. Most of the problems I have trouble with are due to reach issues. It seems my wing span or reach is always juust short of getting me to that crux, or my legs never reach that one foot chip that's crucial for making a move.

I've learned how to get over many problems at the 5.10 and under level, but once I get to tougher climbs I get stuck. Even climbers who are 5'2" or 5'3" seem to have a world of advantage over me. I know dyno-ing to some holds might be one solution but it hasn't been a one size fits all solution to a lot of moves that require careful precision and a lot of balance.

My questions: Are there any famous, successful pro female climbers who are my height and I can learn from?

Any of you out there who share the same problem and know how to work around it?

Are there any exercises, books, videos that are good at tackling this problem that I can consult? Has anyone coached a small climber and been able to help them get to 5.12s and above?

Please help!

Thanks!!!

I'm a male climber who's just under 5'10" and after 16 years of climbing I feel I'm plateauing at 5.10 - 5.11 and V3 - V4. Most of the problems I have trouble with are not due to reach issues. My wing span is plus a couple, and my legs usually reach that one foot chip that's crucial for making a move.

I've learned how to get over many problems at the 5.10 and under level, but once I get to tougher climbs I get stuck. Even climbers who are 5'3" (Duncan) or 5'4" (Elly) seem to have a world of advantage over me. I know dyno-ing to some holds might be one solution (that's what Duncan does) but it hasn't been a one size fits all solution to a lot of moves that require careful precision and a lot of balance.

My questions: Are there any famous, successful pro male climbers who are my height and I can learn from?

Any of you out there who share the same problem and know how to work around it?

Are there any exercises, books, videos that are good at tackling this problem that I can consult? Has anyone coached a climber my size and been able to help them get to 5.12s and above?

Please help!

Thanks!!!

No ill will meant, but 6 months at 5.11 is not bad.

Look up Lynn Hill and Robyn Erbesfield.
Heh, i was going to do something similar to this when i saw the OP, but Shockabuku beat me to it by a long way.

I think it's fair to say that everyone has their issues and the: I'm short, woes me, crap gets old. I'm 6'2" and have a bitch of a time with SDS, but I've never complained about it. It's just something to work on.

We all have weaknesses and strengths. The smart ones' train their weaknesses, and the silly ones' bemoan that nature didn't make them in the image of Sharma or Rands.

Don't worry, be happy. At 6 months you're climbing as hard as i do after a year and a half and i'm sure i have an insane amount of reach on you.

Peace,
Ry.


rtwilli4


Jul 2, 2009, 1:44 AM
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I remember reading somewhere that Chris Sharma, Tommy Caldwell, and Lynn Hill were all bouldering together. There was a move that took Sharma ONE move, TC three, and Lynn EIGHT MOVES!

I think Katie Brown would be a good person for you to watch climb. She is about 5 feet tall. Have you seen Pilgrimage?


jgill


Jul 2, 2009, 4:06 AM
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Re: [ravelledfleeces] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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Virtually all the comments so far are good. Take advantage of your (lack of) height. I've watched rock climbers for well over 50 years and have no doubt that short climbers have, in general, an advantage. Lynn Hill has already been mentioned, but during the early 1950s the top rock tigers in England were very small: Don Whillans was about 5'2"(?) and Joe Brown only a couple of inches taller. Small people are built to climb. Now, there are some boulder problems designed by very tall climbers (e.g., Jim Holloway at about 6'5") expressly for the long reaches which eliminate most others, but on longer climbs you will learn to appreciate your compact size. Just give yourself time.


ravelledfleeces


Jul 2, 2009, 4:39 AM
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Re: [ravelledfleeces] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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Thanks, everyone! You've ALL been super helpful. Much to learn, I have. Both from those who remind me not to whine and think about it as a limitation, and from those who've given me pointers on particular things to work on! I think i will try to climb outside for a while to see how that changes from the gym, work on my fitness, work on footwork, figure out different beta, and keep working at it. I'm excited to try out all your suggestions. Peace!


Myxomatosis


Jul 2, 2009, 5:27 AM
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Re: [ravelledfleeces] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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If the setters are doing reachy problems, all you gotta do is walk over, grab the T bar (or some screws) remove random foot hold, replace in spot and use it.

If they said, taller setters complain, just tell them its the gym and if it was outside that foot hold would be there and would be in.


Failing that... turn to the dark side of the force.


PS: Youtube Lynn Hill doing Midnight Lightning and then watch other people try.


ladyscarlett


Jul 2, 2009, 10:06 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
There is no special "short person" training or technique that will magicly make you better.

In very general terms, getting that reachy moves requires one (or a combination) of the following:
-dynamic move
-using higher (often not-as-good) feet
-using intermediate ( often not-as-good) handholds
-finding a completely different sequence (instead of doing what the tall person did, with an extra foot or handhold)

Regardless of how well you have mastered all of the above, there will always be climbs that you will find harder-than-the grade-given-in-guidebook, because of your height.

However, the same is likely true for the rest of the climbers, regardless of the height. A guy with big hands is likely to find a small crimpy sequence to be harder-than-the-grade, while you might think it was easier than the grade, or right no target, for example.

So, if your goal is to climb A 5.12a, you will be able to find a 5.12a that fits your climbing style and body type, and you'll climb it.

If your goal is to climb THIS ONE PARTICULAR 5.12a with 6-foot reaches hold-to-hold on otherwise blank wall, then, depending on the specifics, you might find that this particular 5.12a is not doable for you until you are climbing 5.13s...

It's O.K.

Whine judiciously if you have to (I should follow my own advice. I am a big "shorty" whiner -- ask my partners!), keep climbing. You will never grow taller-- but you will eventually get to climb the things that right now feel impossible.

wow, really good to hear this! It's taken me many climbs as cleaner to start the process of internalizing just some of this - thanks from someone climbing with very vertically advantaged partners! And sometimes being short can be fun though I don't climb at a particularly hard level ...I was reliving a particular invigorating bit of climbing to my friend, and upon ending with "wasn't it so cool?" he promptly responds "no, you're just short!"

Ha!

I'm learning that some outdoor climbs can be more fun when one is forced to use additional creativity to pull those moves on "often not as good" intermediary hands and feet.

To the OP, I'm kind of new to this whole thing, but the short time I've been able to observe, there gets to be a certain point where being tall can be it's own type of height limitation as well. Do I enjoy seeing taller climbers get at this point? Well...about the same amount as they enjoy seeing ME at MY height limitations. Watch carefully, and you'll see a tall climber make that "damn I wish I was shorter" face for sure! It's all part of the fun.

enjoy!

ls


cantbuymefriends


Jul 2, 2009, 11:39 AM
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Re: [ravelledfleeces] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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ravelledfleeces wrote:
I'm a female climber who's just under 5'1" and after 6 months of climbing (3-4 times a week indoors, outdoor bouldering biweekly) I feel I'm plateauing at 5.10 - 5.11 and V3 - V4.

This schedule for a 6-months "beginner" sounds like a recipe for pain and injury to me. Remember that muscles grow and adapt to (heavier) loading faster than joints and tendon tissue does. I think you should “plateau”, and ease off a little bit for a while. Let your tendons catch up with your muscles before you pull something that will make you plateau at 5.10 for a very long time.
Back off a bit, climb some 5.6-5.8 or V0 just for the fun of it. And try different types of climbing like slabs, as already been mentioned above.


granite_grrl


Jul 2, 2009, 11:48 AM
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Re: [k.l.k] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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k.l.k wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
Usually it's not really a reach problem, but not being able to take full advantage of your full reach. Good lock off and a strong core goes a long way in terms of reach.

But honestly, I think that the OP going about this wrong. You're saying you can't so a move because you're short and don't have enough reach. Very self limiting. You need to start thinking in terms that you can't do the move the way that you're trying it, what do you have to do to make the move possible. We all have our limitations, we all have to learn to adjust to something non-ideal sometime or another.

or she's bouldering only in a gym where the course setters design routes with a minimum number of holds spaced for them and their bros.

climbing outside will help, if that's an option.
I thought she mentioned she climbed outside too. Oh well.

Frankly, the gym sucks. By it's nature it's contrived, routes/problems are set often trying to force a move. Which is fine, unless you simply cannot do the move. I climb a full number grade harder outside than I do inside. I just have to forget about grades and lower my expectations when climbing inside of I'll make myself crazy.


flippy04


Jul 2, 2009, 12:44 PM
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I consume bone broth for this.


k.l.k


Jul 2, 2009, 2:06 PM
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Re: [granite_grrl] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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granite_grrl wrote:
I climb a full number grade harder outside than I do inside. I just have to forget about grades and lower my expectations when climbing inside of I'll make myself crazy.

That's because the course setters in your gym suck. And I don't care which one/s it is.

Next time you're in Innsbruck, go to Tivoli. It helps that Angela Eiter is the resident hard woman, but generally, a lot of the European gyms I've visited seem to do a vastly better job of setting routes for a wider array of body types and physical styles.


shockabuku


Jul 2, 2009, 3:34 PM
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Re: [rtwilli4] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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rtwilli4 wrote:
I remember reading somewhere that Chris Sharma, Tommy Caldwell, and Lynn Hill were all bouldering together. There was a move that took Sharma ONE move, TC three, and Lynn EIGHT MOVES!

I think Katie Brown would be a good person for you to watch climb. She is about 5 feet tall. Have you seen Pilgrimage?

Yeah, and Lynn is like 20 years older than they are.


sidepull


Jul 2, 2009, 3:41 PM
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Re: [k.l.k] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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k.l.k wrote:
Next time you're in Innsbruck, go to Tivoli. It helps that Angela Eiter is the resident hard woman, but generally, a lot of the European gyms I've visited seem to do a vastly better job of setting routes for a wider array of body types and physical styles.

Amazing generalization alert! [please note, in this case amazing doesn't mean "good" or "excellent" it means "large" or "preposterous"]. Honestly, how many european gyms have you been too? From my sample (5, admittedly small, or "un-amazing") they have the same problems with setting as the US. Recommending someone travel to Angela Eiter's gym to cope with their obsession with poor route setting is simply awesome [please insert a definition for awesome here that means anything but awesome, thanks!].


k.l.k


Jul 2, 2009, 4:08 PM
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Re: [sidepull] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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sidepull wrote:
k.l.k wrote:
Next time you're in Innsbruck, go to Tivoli. It helps that Angela Eiter is the resident hard woman, but generally, a lot of the European gyms I've visited seem to do a vastly better job of setting routes for a wider array of body types and physical styles.

Amazing generalization alert! [please note, in this case amazing doesn't mean "good" or "excellent" it means "large" or "preposterous"]. Honestly, how many european gyms have you been too? From my sample (5, admittedly small, or "un-amazing") they have the same problems with setting as the US. Recommending someone travel to Angela Eiter's gym to cope with their obsession with poor route setting is simply awesome [please insert a definition for awesome here that means anything but awesome, thanks!].

Not much of a generalization at all. I've climbed at probably 14 or 15 gyms in western Europe-- England, France, Italy, Germany, Switzerland, and Austria. Probably the same number here in the US. Not a huge sample, but enough to suggest stylistic differences in approaches to route setting. But other climbers talk openly about the differences as well. It's something of a banality to suggest that the Brits tend to set more straightforward, thuggish routes while the French tend to prefer more complicated and technical routes. True in each and every gym? Obviously not. But a tendency that other folks have noted so often that it's become a cliche.

My recommendation to GG was tongue-in-cheek, partly a reference to her ongoing and fairly public weather/partners/travel drama. But the implication was fairly serious: Shorter folks need to press routesetters to set routes for a wider array of body types.

You seem awfully touchy this morning. Are you a routesetter at GG's gym? Hehe.


fluxus


Jul 2, 2009, 4:51 PM
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Re: [ravelledfleeces] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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Height in climbing is often considered an ultimate value but it probably shouldn't be. If you pay attention there are plenty of moves in climbing that favor one body type over another, sometime the short climber has an advantage other times they don't. Look at what happens to guys over six feet tall when it comes to getting the feet high. Their COG moves pretty far away from the rock in situations where the average or short climber has a much easier time keeping the COG in.

Shorter climbers do tend to adopt specific skills / tactics such as when examining a sequence, the shorter climber will look at the chalked holds and then also look for hand and foot holds that will be helpful but have been previously overlooked. Its not reasonable to expect that the smaller climber and the taller climber are going to use the same foot sequence. They often won't, even in cases where the hand sequence is about the same.

I'm not sure I buy the idea that someone with 6 months of climbing experience is experiencing a plateau in the traditional sense. You have not been climbing long enough to develop enough skills/fitness for your skills / fitness to undergo that kind of transformation. If anything you may just be improving slower and there are a lot of potential reasons for that including. You give the impression that you may be focused on numbers, so as a new climber you may be making some elementary mistakes about how you spend your time climbing in order to achieve higher numbers.

Basically climbers of all sizes climb all grades. I have climbed with a number of people in the under 5 five foot 3 inches club who have done good numbers of 5.14s. People mention Lynn, but Mia (Axon) is actually shorter than Lynn is. Both women won multiple national championships. Both women have on-sighted 5.13s and both women red pointed 5.14.

being short alone is not enough to prevent anyone from climbing at a very high level.


(This post was edited by fluxus on Jul 3, 2009, 12:15 AM)


mturner


Jul 2, 2009, 5:16 PM
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Re: [jgill] Short climbers - how do we get over our height limitations? [In reply to]
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jgill wrote:
Virtually all the comments so far are good. Take advantage of your (lack of) height. I've watched rock climbers for well over 50 years and have no doubt that short climbers have, in general, an advantage. Lynn Hill has already been mentioned, but during the early 1950s the top rock tigers in England were very small: Don Whillans was about 5'2"(?) and Joe Brown only a couple of inches taller. Small people are built to climb. Now, there are some boulder problems designed by very tall climbers (e.g., Jim Holloway at about 6'5") expressly for the long reaches which eliminate most others, but on longer climbs you will learn to appreciate your compact size. Just give yourself time.

It's nice to hear this from you.

I certainly am not claiming a disadvantage at 6'1" with a +3 ape but I too often hear the opposite of this. I think the problem is that on the surface it is very easy to say that height is an advantage. You see a tall person reach for a move with relative ease and you forget the amount of body control/tension needed to stretch that far or the sheer physics of the move (especially on overhangs). That's not to say a reachy move isn't easier if you're tall, but it's worth considering.

Also, scrunchy moves are very difficult for tall climbers. I've heard people say that this is a flexibility issue but I can easily put my foot over my head, but when I do that my core/hips are hanging low and out for scrunchy moves, which makes it very difficult at times to keep my hips into the wall where a shorter climber would "fit" into the wall better and be able to keep the necessary body tension.

Again, I'm not advocating either way. I think we all have our advantages and disadvantages and those are fluid and change with the type of climb we are on. My climbing partner is quite a bit shorter than me but we climb about the same grade on average, however there are some climbs I can't do that he can and vice versa, but that is true with people that are my height as well.

There was a thread a while back on this subject and a convincing argument was to look at the average height of the top climbers in the world. It was similar to the average/variance in height of the population. If height was an issue though, you would think that the top climbers would all tend to be tall (as in the NBA) or tend to be short (as in jockeys in horse racing)


ravelledfleeces


Jul 3, 2009, 2:40 AM
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In reply to:
I'm not sure I buy the idea that someone with 6 months of climbing experience is experiencing a plateau in the traditional sense. You have not been climbing long enough to develop enough skills/fitness for your skills / fitness to undergo that kind of transformation. If anything you may just be improving slower and there are a lot of potential reasons for that including. You give the impression that you may be focused on numbers, so as a new climber you may be making some elementary mistakes about how you spend your time climbing in order to achieve higher numbers.

You're right, I'm probably not "plateauing" - just being impatient and wanting to get better. Apologies if I sounded as if all I wanted was to climb higher numbers. Grades were merely the easiest way I could think of expressing that i feel stuck not knowing how to improve. I keep having to remind myself how much time and hard work it takes to become better!! P.s. if you wrote the Self-Coached Climber I have your book and it's been really helpful so thanks.


Myxomatosis


Jul 3, 2009, 4:56 AM
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Ravelled.. I think one of the main aspects of training for climbing is understanding what you are not good at, a certian type of move or hand grip or body position or even technique as a whole... and work that area, and importantly, re-adjust your training to train those weakness's as they surface.


Partner angry


Jul 3, 2009, 5:08 AM
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flippy04 wrote:
I consume bone broth for this.

Does your tall boyfriend make it for you?


OMEGA3RIC


Jul 4, 2009, 4:33 AM
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I'm pretty short to and I just dyno everything. works pretty well though it does get hard when i have to dyno to a small crimp or sloper


quiteatingmysteak


Jul 4, 2009, 5:28 AM
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Quit bouldering in the gym and learn to crank on small crimps. You will understand how gifted you are!


jakedatc


Jul 4, 2009, 11:34 PM
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Cicada Jenerik was 4' 8 when she was 11 and climbed V11.. climb more.. pull harder. get better.





acorneau


Jul 5, 2009, 12:35 AM
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jakedatc wrote:
Cicada Jenerik was 4' 8 when she was 11 and climbed V11.. climb more.. pull harder. get better.

Don't you mean, " climb more, pull harder, WEIGH 70 POUNDS, get better." ???!!??!?!?!?!?!


rainman0915


Jul 5, 2009, 4:38 PM
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i know 10 year old climber who is AMAZING (climbing high 11s and low 12s) and he happens to be like 4'9'' i dont know his secret but whatever he does it works


REAL


Jul 6, 2009, 4:59 AM
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Just DYNO EVERYTHING! j/k

This is a great read, lots of good stuff in here, thanks.


(This post was edited by REAL on Jul 6, 2009, 5:43 AM)


A-Bowl


Jul 6, 2009, 5:22 AM
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Climb Cracks.... height not as much of an issue and small fingers help

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