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Peasley1
Jul 16, 2009, 3:27 PM
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Ok, so I got a new rope yesterday (Mammut supersafe) which brings me up to 2 ropes now giving me the option to do longer sport routes/link ups. Only thing stopping me thus far was the thought that I might have to bail for w/e reason and be too far up to rap down on one rope. So my question is what is the best way to haul this second rope up with me. I'm thinking one of these 3 ways 1.) Treat like double ropes (don't like this option because of the increased forces on mah body/anchor, they are both 10.2) 2.) Butterfly coil and turn into a backpack 3.) Treat like a haul line What is the best option for this, or I am just completely off? Thanks
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krosbakken
Jul 16, 2009, 3:44 PM
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Your on the right track but... Do not do #1 that is not safe. Plus it would be heavy and not worth it. #2 would work just fine but if there is any chimney moves or anything it might get in your way. If you do it this way have your second carry it. (I guess it is no different than climbing with a pack on.) #3 would also work well. but the leader should trail it because if it got stuck the second can get it out if needed. It all comes done to personal preference. Both #2 and #3 work. Just remember, don't ever use single ropes as doubles.
(This post was edited by krosbakken on Jul 16, 2009, 3:48 PM)
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sungam
Jul 16, 2009, 3:52 PM
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krosbakken wrote: Just remember, don't ever use single ropes as doubles. I think you're thinking of twins (twins get clipped through the same beaner). Double ropes aren't actually that bad as doubles, though they are heavier and in the vary odd chance that you managed to whip in such a way that they both get loaded, which would be pretty much impossible on a sport route. In fact, I think it would make it a bit safer - you could blow clips and whip on the extra slack.
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lena_chita
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Jul 16, 2009, 4:06 PM
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Wait, are you planning on REGULARLY bailing on long sport routes? So regularly that you would carry the extra rope with you every time you would do a longer route?
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bigo
Jul 16, 2009, 4:15 PM
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If it comes down to it, you should be able to get off most any sport route with a single rope. It just may require leaving more than a single bail biner. Or, have your second trail a second rope and if you need to bail, use the lead line to haul up your second rope. This is tough on a traversing pitch since you have to pull the lead line through all of the draws and drop it back to your second. Either way, you shouldn't need to lead with a second single rope ...
(This post was edited by bigo on Jul 16, 2009, 4:17 PM)
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Peasley1
Jul 16, 2009, 4:16 PM
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lena_chita wrote: Wait, are you planning on REGULARLY bailing on long sport routes? So regularly that you would carry the extra rope with you every time you would do a longer route? Well I don't every plan to bail, just shit happens sometimes that you can't plan for. Like I don't plan to fall either but I still have a rope.
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Peasley1
Jul 16, 2009, 4:17 PM
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bigo wrote: If it comes down to it, you should be able to get off most any sport route with a single rope. It just may require leaving more than a single bail biner. Or, have your second trail the rope and if you need to bail, use the lead line to haul up your second rope. This is tough on a traversing pitch since you have to pull the lead line through all of the draws and drop it back to your second. Either way, you shouldn't need to lead with a second single rope ... Yea this sounds like the best method, thanks for all the responses.
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krosbakken
Jul 16, 2009, 4:18 PM
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sungam wrote: krosbakken wrote: Just remember, don't ever use single ropes as doubles. Double ropes aren't actually that bad as doubles, Fair enough. but I think you meant single ropes aren't as bad as doubles.
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sungam
Jul 16, 2009, 7:49 PM
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krosbakken wrote: sungam wrote: krosbakken wrote: Just remember, don't ever use single ropes as doubles. Double ropes aren't actually that bad as doubles, Fair enough. but I think you meant single ropes aren't as bad as doubles. Yes, that is korekt. I, er... had to give you something.
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caughtinside
Jul 16, 2009, 8:06 PM
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Best methods if you need two ropes: 1) have the second trail it up (be sure it is flaked out so it doesn't get hung up) 2) pull the lead rope up through all the draws, lower it down, and have the belayer tie the second rope to the lead rope, tow it up. 3) trail it like a haul line. Having the leader trail is a last resort IMO on a sport route, because it adds a lot of extra weight and you're already headed up pretty high if the route is over 100 feet.
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marc801
Jul 16, 2009, 8:35 PM
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bigo wrote: Or, have your second trail a second rope and if you need to bail, use the lead line to haul up your second rope. This is tough on a traversing pitch since you have to pull the lead line through all of the draws and drop it back to your second. And if on a multipitch route that overhangs or one where the line puts the leader over a spot the second cannot reach (eg: the route starts from the left end of a ledge and traverses left at some point), difficult to impossible to get the rope back to the now stranded second. The leader is possibly stranded as well.
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bigo
Jul 16, 2009, 10:14 PM
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marc801 wrote: bigo wrote: Or, have your second trail a second rope and if you need to bail, use the lead line to haul up your second rope. This is tough on a traversing pitch since you have to pull the lead line through all of the draws and drop it back to your second. And if on a multipitch route that overhangs or one where the line puts the leader over a spot the second cannot reach (eg: the route starts from the left end of a ledge and traverses left at some point), difficult to impossible to get the rope back to the now stranded second. The leader is possibly stranded as well. So true, but with a little creativity, there are always ways to make it work. Belay your second to the bolt below your bail point where they can get the second rope to the leader. Or, tape the trailing rope end to end and pull it through the draws. Or, fix the lead line and descend a single rope back to the belay re-clipping draws then re-jug the fixed line trailing the second back to the bail anchor. I'm sure there are other ways.
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marc801
Jul 16, 2009, 10:34 PM
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bigo wrote: marc801 wrote: bigo wrote: Or, have your second trail a second rope and if you need to bail, use the lead line to haul up your second rope. This is tough on a traversing pitch since you have to pull the lead line through all of the draws and drop it back to your second. And if on a multipitch route that overhangs or one where the line puts the leader over a spot the second cannot reach (eg: the route starts from the left end of a ledge and traverses left at some point), difficult to impossible to get the rope back to the now stranded second. The leader is possibly stranded as well. So true, but with a little creativity, there are always ways to make it work. Belay your second to the bolt below your bail point where they can get the second rope to the leader. Or, tape the trailing rope end to end and pull it through the draws. Or, fix the lead line and descend a single rope back to the belay re-clipping draws then re-jug the fixed line trailing the second back to the bail anchor. I'm sure there are other ways. Agreed...provided that the party takes the time to think things through. Having had experience rescuing a stranded second in just this situation, I thought it worth the mention!
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shimanilami
Jul 16, 2009, 10:35 PM
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Sport route? It's a messed up sport route if you have to use a second rope to get down. Rapping to intermediate anchors I can understand. But a sport route that requires two ropes? It seems like an oxymoron. But maybe I'm just climbing in the wrong places.
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potreroed
Jul 16, 2009, 11:37 PM
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shimanilami wrote: Sport route? It's a messed up sport route if you have to use a second rope to get down. Rapping to intermediate anchors I can understand. But a sport route that requires two ropes? It seems like an oxymoron. But maybe I'm just climbing in the wrong places. In El Potrero Chico, world capital of big wall sport climbs, many trail an extra rope so they can rap two pitches at a time and be down sooner (especially if they simul-rap) for a cold cerveza and a shot of tequila. OP, caughtinside probably has the best answer to your query.
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marc801
Jul 16, 2009, 11:45 PM
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potreroed wrote: shimanilami wrote: Sport route? It's a messed up sport route if you have to use a second rope to get down. Rapping to intermediate anchors I can understand. But a sport route that requires two ropes? It seems like an oxymoron. But maybe I'm just climbing in the wrong places. In El Potrero Chico, world capital of big wall sport climbs, many trail an extra rope so they can rap two pitches at a time and be down sooner (especially if they simul-rap) for a cold cerveza and a shot of tequila. Many routes in Red Rocks require two ropes for the normal descent. There are also a number of bolted routes at City of Rocks that have anchors at 160'.
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Peasley1
Jul 17, 2009, 1:10 AM
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Yea I predominatly climb in NC and not a lot where u need two ropes to rap down, this is mainly for future reference if I find myself in that situation.
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DexterRutecki
Jul 17, 2009, 6:41 AM
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There's something I'm not getting on this whole thread. It sounds like you're talking about bailing on a sport route, when you're more than half a rope length up. The OP also mentioned he had two ropes. Seems simple to me: Tie the end of the lead rope to the second rope with a triple fishermans knot. Lower the climber until the knot reaches the belay device. Pass the knot - I can think of a few ways. Now, continue to lower them, and pull the rope. I don't know where this talk of "seconds" came in, I saw no mention of multi pitch.
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bigo
Jul 17, 2009, 2:40 PM
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DexterRutecki wrote: There's something I'm not getting on this whole thread. It sounds like you're talking about bailing on a sport route, when you're more than half a rope length up. The OP also mentioned he had two ropes. Seems simple to me: Tie the end of the lead rope to the second rope with a triple fishermans knot. Lower the climber until the knot reaches the belay device. Pass the knot - I can think of a few ways. Now, continue to lower them, and pull the rope. I don't know where this talk of "seconds" came in, I saw no mention of multi pitch. Unless the leader is bailing at the first bolt, that won't work as the knot would have to pass through all of the quick draws clipped on the lead.
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DexterRutecki
Jul 17, 2009, 5:06 PM
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bigo wrote: DexterRutecki wrote: There's something I'm not getting on this whole thread. Unless the leader is bailing at the first bolt, that won't work as the knot would have to pass through all of the quick draws clipped on the lead. D'oh. That would be it. Thanks.
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marc801
Jul 17, 2009, 5:50 PM
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DexterRutecki wrote: I don't know where this talk of "seconds" came in, I saw no mention of multi pitch. No explicit mention of multi-pitch, just "long sport routes", and certainly a multi-pitch sport route would qualify as long.
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DexterRutecki
Jul 17, 2009, 6:02 PM
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marc801 wrote: DexterRutecki wrote: I don't know where this talk of "seconds" came in, I saw no mention of multi pitch. No explicit mention of multi-pitch, just "long sport routes", and certainly a multi-pitch sport route would qualify as long. I think there's a pretty big difference, as multi-pitch implies a belay station that is not on the ground. When I hear "long sport route" I think of some 17 clip rope lengthed monster.
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shimanilami
Jul 17, 2009, 6:57 PM
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DexterRutecki wrote: I think there's a pretty big difference, as multi-pitch implies a belay station that is not on the ground. When I hear "long sport route" I think of some 17 clip rope lengthed monster. I've climbed quite a few routes that are intended to be climbed as a single pitch, but have a rappel station midway so that a single rope can be used to get down. I'm pretty sure that noone ever belays from the midway stations. I love these types of routes. And I love that the guys who put the bolts in were thoughtful enough to add one more bolt so that the rest of us don't need to carry a second rope.
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marc801
Jul 17, 2009, 6:58 PM
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DexterRutecki wrote: marc801 wrote: DexterRutecki wrote: I don't know where this talk of "seconds" came in, I saw no mention of multi pitch. No explicit mention of multi-pitch, just "long sport routes", and certainly a multi-pitch sport route would qualify as long. I think there's a pretty big difference, as multi-pitch implies a belay station that is not on the ground. When I hear "long sport route" I think of some 17 clip rope lengthed monster. Off the top of my head I can think of a few dozen multi-pitch sport routes in various areas just in the US. There are at least a dozen in Utah alone.
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bigo
Jul 17, 2009, 7:08 PM
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shimanilami wrote: DexterRutecki wrote: I think there's a pretty big difference, as multi-pitch implies a belay station that is not on the ground. When I hear "long sport route" I think of some 17 clip rope lengthed monster. I've climbed quite a few routes that are intended to be climbed as a single pitch, but have a rappel station midway so that a single rope can be used to get down. I'm pretty sure that noone ever belays from the midway stations. I love these types of routes. And I love that the guys who put the bolts in were thoughtful enough to add one more bolt so that the rest of us don't need to carry a second rope. +1 And the converse, I hate it when anchors are at 40m + with no mid station - what a PITA.
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