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mojomonkey
Aug 21, 2009, 1:26 PM
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curt wrote: mojomonkey wrote: I'd recommend Peterskill as well (though it isn't up the road from the Gunks, it is part of the Gunks)... No--it isn't part of the Gunks. Curt
I'm sure you know more about it than I, but by what definition is Perterskill not part of the Gunks? What do you feel constitutes the Gunks?
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qtm
Aug 21, 2009, 1:56 PM
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PK is located in the Shawangunks, so technically, it is part of the "Gunks".
However, PK is on Palisades Interstate Park Commission land. The PIPC prohibits climbing on all their land (including the Hudson Palisades), with the exception of PK. There is a separate usage fee, separate guide, restricted number of climbers per day. PK is only open three seasons from dawn 'till dusk.
The "Gunks" as we know them- Trapps, Nears, half of Millbrook, and the various outer crags, are all on Mohonk Preserve property. You can climb in most areas (there are a few areas that are restricted like Sleepy Hollow and some bits of private property in the Nears, Bonticou, the Bayards). There is a single fee that covers all these areas, and there are covered by guidebooks by Dick Williams. It's open year round.
There's also Skytop, which is privately owned by the Mohonk Mountain House, and climbing is prohibited there unless you're a guest of the hotel and use a MMH approved guide service.
Since we can't climb at Skytop, and there's a separate fee for climbing at PK, we usually don't refer to those areas as part of the Gunks.
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mojomonkey
Aug 21, 2009, 2:59 PM
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I know all of that, but still considered them part of the Gunks myself. I thought everyone considered Skytop part of the Gunks, for example, regardless of access.
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marc801
Aug 21, 2009, 3:03 PM
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qtm wrote: Since we can't climb at Skytop, and there's a separate fee for climbing at PK, we usually don't refer to those areas as part of the Gunks.
PK is geographically in the Gunks, but when referring to climbing at the Gunks, PK is considered a separate area.
Skytop is most definitely part of the Gunks, but with highly restricted access.
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qtm
Aug 21, 2009, 4:09 PM
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marc801 wrote: qtm wrote: Since we can't climb at Skytop, and there's a separate fee for climbing at PK, we usually don't refer to those areas as part of the Gunks. Wrong for Skytop, sorta correct for PK. PK is geographically in the Gunks, but when referring to climbing at the Gunks, PK is considered a separate area. Skytop is most definitely part of the Gunks, but with highly restricted access.
How long has it been since you've climbed here?
When people say "let's go climbing at the Gunks", they don't mean "let's go get $400 rooms at the MMH and hire guides so we can climb at Skytop".
Williams took Skytop out of his Gunks Select 2nd ed in 2001. It's not covered in his latest Guides, so really, it is a separate climbing area now.
Might take some time for you old fogeys to get used to the idea, but since it's for all intents and purposes off limits, it's no longer what people refer to when they say they're going climbing at the Gunks.
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LostinMaine
Aug 21, 2009, 7:49 PM
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Lethal-Climber wrote: Awesome info guys! Looks like I have some decisions to make. For the Peterskill guidebook, is there only one? Taking into consideration the varying skill level, climbing time v, driving time and the want for a nice scenic place to climb what are the recommendation between the following: Beer Walls Peterskill Little Falls Moss Island
Just out of curiosity, what is it about the Beer Walls that has you fixated? That is one crag (with nice climbs) in the Adricondacks. There are a ton of other places in the 'dacks to climb, several of which provide better opportunities for TRing.
It's quite simple really. If you want top rope climbs that are easy to set up and varied in difficulty, go to Little Falls. They are not tall cliffs, but there is a lot of climbing to be had. If the crowds are bad at Moss Island, head to the Dihedrals just down the road.
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marc801
Aug 21, 2009, 8:20 PM
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qtm wrote: Might take some time for you old fogeys to get used to the idea, but since it's for all intents and purposes off limits, it's no longer what people refer to when they say they're going climbing at the Gunks.
But to say that Skytop isn't part of the Gunks - from a climbing perspective, even if it's off limits - is like saying the closed section of the Nears or the privately owned half of Millbrook aren't "the Gunks". But really, this is basically a pointless discussion. Might take some maturity and time for you youngsters to realize that.
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qtm
Aug 21, 2009, 9:49 PM
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marc801 wrote: "Going climbing at the Gunks" always referred to whatever was open
Yep. Since Skytop is closed, we don't consider it part of the Gunks.
Defining the "Gunks" specifically as the area where people can climb, legally, for a modest fee, which is much more relevant to visiting climbers than a historical perspective.
And yes, most people never go beyond the Trapps. But as the three main lots fill up on fall weekends, more people are being forced to venture out to Clove, then out to Spring Farm, where they come into direct contact with the MMH policies.
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rgold
Aug 21, 2009, 10:28 PM
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I don't think there is any difficulty with TR'ing at Beer Walls; for moderate to hard routes it is better than Peterskill in my opinion.
There are lots of other possibilities too. From Adirondack Rock (p 629), a book you should get: (Boldface added by me re potential toproping "difficulties.")
"The areas listed here have easy access to the top for setting topropes, an accessible cliff base, and few obstructions for dropping ropes. Plan on building your own anchors with long cord and/or protection. Review the regulations in the relevant section regarding group size, and be sure to share the cliff with others (page 28)."
Baker Mountain, Northern Mountains, 611
Beer Walls, Chapel Pond Pass, 235
Bluff Island, Northern Mountains, 610
Brain, The, Lake George, 440
Chapel Pond Viewpoint, Chapel Pond Pass, 206
County Line Mountain, Northern Mountains, 607
Crane Mountain, Right of Ladder, Indian Lake, 483
Creature Wall, Chapel Pond Pass, 195
Eagle Falls Crag, Old Forge, 580
Grass Pond Mountain, Cranberry Lake, 589
Jewels and Gem Wall, Chapel Pond Pass, 163
King Philips Spring Wall, Lake Champlain, 132
Lake Pleasant Quarry, Southern Mountains, 568
Ledge Mountain (Nobleboro), Old Forge, 569
Middle Settlement Lake, Old Forge, 573
Newbuck, Lake George, 433
Noonmark Mountain, High Peaks, 394
Notch Mountain Slab, Roast 'n Boast Slab, Wilmington Notch, 321
Outlet Wall, Chapel Pond Pass, 211
Owls Head Mountain, Keene, 288
Panther Mountain, Southern Mountains, 565
Pitchoff Chimney Cliff, Practice Wall, Keene, 298
South Bay Roadcut, Cranberry Lake, 588
South Colton, Northern Mountains, 595
Spruce Hill Crag, Keene, 272
Stewarts Ledge, Lake George, 437
Tanager Face, Chapel Pond Pass, 190
Wright Peak Cliff, High Peaks, 426
Here's the Beer Walls page on the Adirondack Rock site.
As for the Byzantine wrangling over what the Gunks means, it seems worth recalling that the Shawangunks were present and named before climbers arrived, and the name refers to the entire ridge and all the features therein. Perhaps climbers want to concoct some ever-changing definition referring to whatever portion of the Shawangunk Ridge currently has legal climbing (I think that at the moment there are about fifteen such cliffs), but my view would be that the domain name is already taken.
Those who think that legal climbing should define the Gunks will have to remove a narrow strip of the Near Trapps, which is no longer in the Gunks since the land owner closed it to climbing.
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LostinMaine
Aug 21, 2009, 11:04 PM
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rgold wrote: I don't think there is any difficulty with TR'ing at Beer Walls; for moderate to hard routes it is better than Peterskill in my opinion. There are lots of other possibilities too. From Adirondack Rock (p 629), a book you should get: (Boldface added by me re potential toproping "difficulties.") "The areas listed here have easy access to the top for setting topropes, an accessible cliff base, and few obstructions for dropping ropes. Plan on building your own anchors with long cord and/or protection. Review the regulations in the relevant section regarding group size, and be sure to share the cliff with others (page 28).
Perhaps this is true (that the Beer Walls are fine for TRing). It has been probably 5-6 years since I was there last.
My point was not to necessarily discourage the Beers, but rather given his location in CNY and his interest in TRing, Little Falls seemed the better option. Additionally, if he was driving to Keene Valley specifically for top roping, walls like Jewels and Gem, Creature Wall, or even Pitchoff might be better options.
And you're suggestion is a good one (for me to get the new guide, especially because I just moved back to NY). I am still in Mellor's world of rock and ice climbs...
edited because spell check does not equate to grammar check.
(This post was edited by LostinMaine on Aug 21, 2009, 11:06 PM)
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Lethal-Climber
Aug 21, 2009, 11:19 PM
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LostinMaine wrote: Lethal-Climber wrote: Awesome info guys! Looks like I have some decisions to make. For the Peterskill guidebook, is there only one? Taking into consideration the varying skill level, climbing time v, driving time and the want for a nice scenic place to climb what are the recommendation between the following: Beer Walls Peterskill Little Falls Moss Island Just out of curiosity, what is it about the Beer Walls that has you fixated? That is one crag (with nice climbs) in the Adricondacks. There are a ton of other places in the 'dacks to climb, several of which provide better opportunities for TRing. It's quite simple really. If you want top rope climbs that are easy to set up and varied in difficulty, go to Little Falls. They are not tall cliffs, but there is a lot of climbing to be had. If the crowds are bad at Moss Island, head to the Dihedrals just down the road.
The only reason I keep shooting up Beer Wall is because its a place that my friend brought up that he;s been to before. I would prefer to go to the Gunks/PK/whatever everyone is calling it, but I don't want to wast 3 hours driving to get there and possibly be shut up because there are too many people there.
Moss island sound like a good close place, but it looks to be very short (40ft). this will be my first time climbing outdoors and I would like to have the experience of getting some great views. I've bouldered quite a few times outdoors, and highballed stuff at 25 feet, so an extra 15 with a rope doesn't seem all that worth it to me, however as long as we all have fun and the weather holds up that all that really matters.
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Lethal-Climber
Aug 21, 2009, 11:22 PM
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rgold wrote: I don't think there is any difficulty with TR'ing at Beer Walls; for moderate to hard routes it is better than Peterskill in my opinion. There are lots of other possibilities too. From Adirondack Rock (p 629), a book you should get: (Boldface added by me re potential toproping "difficulties.") "The areas listed here have easy access to the top for setting topropes, an accessible cliff base, and few obstructions for dropping ropes. Plan on building your own anchors with long cord and/or protection. Review the regulations in the relevant section regarding group size, and be sure to share the cliff with others (page 28)." Baker Mountain, Northern Mountains, 611 Beer Walls, Chapel Pond Pass, 235 Bluff Island, Northern Mountains, 610 Brain, The, Lake George, 440 Chapel Pond Viewpoint, Chapel Pond Pass, 206 County Line Mountain, Northern Mountains, 607 Crane Mountain, Right of Ladder, Indian Lake, 483 Creature Wall, Chapel Pond Pass, 195 Eagle Falls Crag, Old Forge, 580 Grass Pond Mountain, Cranberry Lake, 589 Jewels and Gem Wall, Chapel Pond Pass, 163 King Philips Spring Wall, Lake Champlain, 132 Lake Pleasant Quarry, Southern Mountains, 568 Ledge Mountain (Nobleboro), Old Forge, 569 Middle Settlement Lake, Old Forge, 573 Newbuck, Lake George, 433 Noonmark Mountain, High Peaks, 394 Notch Mountain Slab, Roast 'n Boast Slab, Wilmington Notch, 321 Outlet Wall, Chapel Pond Pass, 211 Owls Head Mountain, Keene, 288 Panther Mountain, Southern Mountains, 565 Pitchoff Chimney Cliff, Practice Wall, Keene, 298 South Bay Roadcut, Cranberry Lake, 588 South Colton, Northern Mountains, 595 Spruce Hill Crag, Keene, 272 Stewarts Ledge, Lake George, 437 Tanager Face, Chapel Pond Pass, 190 Wright Peak Cliff, High Peaks, 426 Here's the Beer Walls page on the Adirondack Rock site. As for the Byzantine wrangling over what the Gunks means, it seems worth recalling that the Shawangunks were present and named before climbers arrived, and the name refers to the entire ridge and all the features therein. Perhaps climbers want to concoct some ever-changing definition referring to whatever portion of the Shawangunk Ridge currently has legal climbing (I think that at the moment there are about fifteen such cliffs), but my view would be that the domain name is already taken. Those who think that legal climbing should define the Gunks will have to remove a narrow strip of the Near Trapps, which is no longer in the Gunks since the land owner closed it to climbing.
Yeah, the other thing that kinda stinks is that I have this guide, but forgot it in Dallas 
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marc801
Aug 21, 2009, 11:47 PM
Post #38 of 43
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rgold wrote: As for the Byzantine wrangling over what the Gunks means, it seems worth recalling that the Shawangunks were present and named before climbers arrived, and the name refers to the entire ridge and all the features therein. Perhaps climbers want to concoct some ever-changing definition referring to whatever portion of the Shawangunk Ridge currently has legal climbing (I think that at the moment there are about fifteen such cliffs), but my view would be that the domain name is already taken. Those who think that legal climbing should define the Gunks will have to remove a narrow strip of the Near Trapps, which is no longer in the Gunks since the land owner closed it to climbing.
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curt
Aug 22, 2009, 12:19 AM
Post #39 of 43
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mojomonkey wrote: curt wrote: mojomonkey wrote: I'd recommend Peterskill as well (though it isn't up the road from the Gunks, it is part of the Gunks)... No--it isn't part of the Gunks. Curt I'm sure you know more about it than I, but by what definition is Perterskill not part of the Gunks? What do you feel constitutes the Gunks?
Well, I've always considered "The Gunks" to be the climbing areas on the Mohonk Preserve, and those cliffs that buying a MP pass would gain you access to. Thus, Millbrook, Near Trapps, Trapps, Skytop, Lost City and Bonticue constitute "The Gunks" to me. There are a few additional minor crags on the MP lands as well. I suppose if you want to consider Peterskill part of "The Gunks," that's fine, but (as others have pointed out) it is under different management.
Curt
(This post was edited by curt on Aug 22, 2009, 12:23 AM)
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Lethal-Climber
Aug 25, 2009, 2:29 PM
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I wanted to thank everyone for their help and input. I ended up purchasing the Dick Williams Grey book for next time.
Unfortunately it rained in the New Paltz area on Saturday (the only day I had a chance to go) so we ended up going to moss Island. There were some great routes there (especially the Dihederals). This was my first time outdoor top roping and was a great success. I got my first experience of true crack climbing and sent my first outdoor 5.11!!
We also met a guy there who climbs the Gunks on a regular basis so I have a guide when I come back up in October!
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cracklover
Aug 25, 2009, 3:22 PM
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Lethal-Climber wrote: I wanted to thank everyone for their help and input. I ended up purchasing the Dick Williams Grey book for next time. Unfortunately it rained in the New Paltz area on Saturday (the only day I had a chance to go) so we ended up going to moss Island. There were some great routes there (especially the Dihederals). This was my first time outdoor top roping and was a great success. I got my first experience of true crack climbing and sent my first outdoor 5.11!! We also met a guy there who climbs the Gunks on a regular basis so I have a guide when I come back up in October!
Nice job making the best of the situation. I once had a day free in Albany, and had a good time exploring the Moss Island scene. The bouldering at the Island was fun, and I thought the climbing at the Dihedrals, while very limited, was actually quite excellent. The train going by the dihedrals, and all the dirt and grime associated with it, though, were not so pleasant.
GO
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Lethal-Climber
Aug 25, 2009, 4:08 PM
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I definitely agree with you on all points. The Diheradals were limited but great climbs and I was very disappointed with the amount of garbage the locals left behind.
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LostinMaine
Aug 25, 2009, 4:48 PM
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cracklover wrote: Lethal-Climber wrote: I wanted to thank everyone for their help and input. I ended up purchasing the Dick Williams Grey book for next time. Unfortunately it rained in the New Paltz area on Saturday (the only day I had a chance to go) so we ended up going to moss Island. There were some great routes there (especially the Dihederals). This was my first time outdoor top roping and was a great success. I got my first experience of true crack climbing and sent my first outdoor 5.11!! We also met a guy there who climbs the Gunks on a regular basis so I have a guide when I come back up in October! Nice job making the best of the situation. I once had a day free in Albany, and had a good time exploring the Moss Island scene. The bouldering at the Island was fun, and I thought the climbing at the Dihedrals, while very limited, was actually quite excellent. The train going by the dihedrals, and all the dirt and grime associated with it, though, were not so pleasant. GO
The first time I lead Cotter's Corner (the 5.7-5.8 inside corner crack), that damn train scared the piss out of me. I have never felt a small cliff rattle like that. Plus, the gear on that route sucked. But, the Dihedrals are the best routes in Little Falls.
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