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osbornedj
Aug 25, 2009, 3:27 PM
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hey climbers,
I am relatively new to climbing and am now looking to purchase my own rack. I am wondering if I can get some feedback on the best carabiners to purchase. I want to do sport routes as well as Trad routes. I plan to mostly purchase my own sligs of various lengths instead of just going with quick draws. Can some experts point me in the right direction. The solid gates seem to vibrate open under falls but the wire gates seem weaker to me. Any help is appreciated.
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Carnage
Aug 25, 2009, 3:39 PM
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osbornedj wrote: hey climbers, I am relatively new to climbing and am now looking to purchase my own rack. I am wondering if I can get some feedback on the best carabiners to purchase. I want to do sport routes as well as Trad routes. I plan to mostly purchase my own sligs of various lengths instead of just going with quick draws. Can some experts point me in the right direction. The solid gates seem to vibrate open under falls but the wire gates seem weaker to me. Any help is appreciated.
talk to someone in real life. if you need help picking wire vs solid you dont belong on any trad routes.
that said, it doesnt really matter. some people do everything with all wire gates, some people do everything with all solid gates. The gate vibrating under a fall can happen, however the chance (imo) is negligibly small. (i see a lot of people out there climbing on solid gates when i go to the crag and i've never heard of one of them talk about it)
wire gates are not weaker. the actual gate is made of steel and (just the gate) is actually stronger than the gate of solid gates. watch some video's of wiregates being pull tested on youtube. you will find that when they break, they do not brake anywhere near the gate.
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nthusiastj
Aug 25, 2009, 3:45 PM
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For just about anything wiregates are fine. They are just as strong.
On a trad rack, you tend to have a lot of weight. Wiregates give you a small weight savings.
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gmggg
Aug 25, 2009, 3:47 PM
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Wire gates are way better. You can use the space between the wires as a bottle opener for your apres summit brews.
Solid gates on the other hand are great for using as impromptu handles on your camping pots and pans.
All the gear out there is so good now that I only purchase things that can double as cooking/drinking utensils. i.e. I don't use hexes because they can't whip eggs as cleanly as a .75 camalot.
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fresh
Aug 25, 2009, 4:05 PM
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just as a tip, there's a search function on this site that can give you a lot more information than starting a thread will. here's a thread that might help you:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
as far as safety goes, the difference between wire gates and solid gates is very very small. in the 80's, as sport climbing became more popular, gate flutter would cause some solid-gate biners to break. I haven't heard of this being a real safety concern in my time, though. I'm not sure, but maybe the spring action in today's solid gates are designed with this in mind.
one thing in favor of solid-gate biners is that wire gates have the [rare] potential to unclip themselves from bolt hangers. I've only seen it demonstrated, but for that reason I prefer solid-gate biners on the bolt end when I'm sport climbing. it doesn't seem to be an issue with glue-in eye bolts.
it really comes down to preference. if you're planning to climb trad, you'll probably find you like wire gates better as they're easier to manipulate. for your first set of biners I'd recommend some easy-to-manipulate wiregates like black diamond hotwires. the notched nose might be annoying as it can catch at annoying times, so maybe you'll eventually get some WC heliums. (although you never want to load any biner over an edge, the heliums seem maybe more fragile than most due to the I-beam design, so be aware of that too.)
test out a variety in the store. practice manipulating biners and slings with one hand, practice clipping a rope into it, see what feels natural in your hand.
and use the damn search function 
(This post was edited by fresh on Aug 25, 2009, 4:06 PM)
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dolphja
Aug 25, 2009, 4:05 PM
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carabiners are pretty much just personal preference. i find that clipping the bent gates are easier but the wire gates save on weight. the wire gates will cut down on your gate rattle as well. if you want some psycological security though, you can just go with straight or bent gate
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Factor2
Aug 25, 2009, 4:20 PM
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and remember not to rack stoppers on wiregates
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LostinMaine
Aug 25, 2009, 4:38 PM
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If you're building a rack, you should not buy one type of biner. I won't justify anything, but here is what I do:
- Oval biners to rack nuts and tricams (solid gate)
- Solid gate D biners to rack cams
- 10-12 shoulder length slings tripled over for trad draws with a D wire gate on one end (gear side) and a D bent wire gate on the other end (rope side)
- 2-4 lockers (2 pear, 2 oval)
- 2-4 spare biners (D wire gates)
Buy each biner for a purpose, not just to build a rack. Otherwise, you end up with gear you don't actually need or want.
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joshy8200
Aug 25, 2009, 4:50 PM
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I use almost exclusively wire gate carabiners. Yes, weight savings is minimal, but multiplied out to an entire rack...is a little bit.
Personally, I also just like the way wire gates clip.
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majid_sabet
Aug 25, 2009, 4:51 PM
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osbornedj wrote: hey climbers, I am relatively new to climbing and am now looking to purchase my own rack. I am wondering if I can get some feedback on the best carabiners to purchase. I want to do sport routes as well as Trad routes. I plan to mostly purchase my own sligs of various lengths instead of just going with quick draws. Can some experts point me in the right direction. The solid gates seem to vibrate open under falls but the wire gates seem weaker to me. Any help is appreciated.
look on ebay and buy someone else's rack. for $200-400, you could get a nice set that is worth $1000-2000 retail. try if for sometimes to see how it goes then start getting the right stuff.
last week some dude sold 5 metoulios cams 00-4 for $50 on ebay . that is $10 each . you buy the same thing off any climbing site, you have to pay $200.
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squishy654
Aug 25, 2009, 5:37 PM
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I use all wire gates for draws and racking cams, I love them. I use bent gate solid keylock nose type for wired protection such as nuts and cams so they don't snag on the notch on the nose. Slung protection like cams or tri-cams are fine on wire gates.
Like someone already said, you will end up with many types of biners. Primarily wire gates and lockers for belays. Pears are also good for master points and munters, so you really need every kind in the end.
Wire gates are a little harder to clip than bend gates but oh well, I don't climb 5.10 anyway so I don't care, I have small and lightweight wires gates so the weight savings is huge. I also geared my rack toward alpine climbing and wire gates are a must in alpine for weigh and snow/ice.
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shockabuku
Aug 25, 2009, 5:39 PM
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I would like to say that I will never again buy another notch nose carabiner, unless it's a wire gate, but it might happen. Keynose biners are much preferable whether for use in sport or trad. Wiregates are nice for trad and the rope end of sport draws. My personal favorites are the Petzl Spirit and Wild Country Helium. I have some relatively new C.A.M.P. Orbit draws (solid gate, keynose) that are surprisingly nice. I also like the Metolius Inferno wiregate though it's just a touch smaller than a standard size biner.
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jmvc
Aug 26, 2009, 12:32 PM
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gmggg wrote: Wire gates are way better. You can use the space between the wires as a bottle opener for your apres summit brews.
You can open bottles with any old biner.
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jmvc
Aug 26, 2009, 12:37 PM
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shockabuku wrote: I have some relatively new C.A.M.P. Orbit draws (solid gate, keynose) that are surprisingly nice.
Best draw for the money out there IMHO. I like the ones with wires too, in fact they make up most of my draws. Very nice for 11 euros.
I think the best draw for sport for those with money to burn is the spirit (and I mean to burn, they cost about double any other draw I've used).
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eastvillage
Aug 26, 2009, 1:12 PM
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" if you need help picking wire vs solid you dont belong on any trad routes. "
Trad leading requires mastering multiple skill sets. Being unsure of the relative advantages of wire vs hard gate biners seems to be no hinderance to, or a disqualifier from, learning to climb with traditional gear.
After all, before wire gates came around that was not even a factor to consider.
Get out there.
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osbornedj
Aug 26, 2009, 2:53 PM
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Registered: Aug 25, 2009
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Yea, I did not really know what to make of that comment. I have already done some Trad climb leading anyway.
I really appreciate everyones valuable input. Many thanks
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clee03m
Aug 26, 2009, 3:13 PM
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Factor2 wrote: and remember not to rack stoppers on wiregates
I second this. One of my partners told me this, and I didn't want to believe it. Then one day, I saw that one of the stoppers had worked itself out of a wire gate biner.
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apeman_e
Aug 26, 2009, 4:13 PM
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In reply to: talk to someone in real life
Why? Is this discussion to complex to have online? If he chooses wire vs. solid gate, will he DIE????
The best part about your cranky post is that you proceed to do a great job answering his question, as did everyone else. Does the OP still need to talk to someone in "real life?"
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Factor2
Aug 26, 2009, 4:17 PM
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clee03m wrote: Factor2 wrote: and remember not to rack stoppers on wiregates I second this. One of my partners told me this, and I didn't want to believe it. Then one day, I saw that one of the stoppers had worked itself out of a wire gate biner.
I lost half my rack of stoppers on one climb, then I learned my lesson 
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shimanilami
Aug 26, 2009, 5:23 PM
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I agree with just about everything said above. The only thing I can add is that solid gate 'biners are better for pulling on or clipping into when you're aid climbing, e.g. on the aider 'biner.
You're probably not aiding, though. So nevermind.
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squishy654
Aug 27, 2009, 2:18 PM
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I love ovals for that purpose, they don't shift around...
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