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Jayboflavin04
Sep 14, 2009, 3:15 PM
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Noob not even off the ground yet. I have been reading here for bout a week or so. I have been wanting to learrn rock climbing and may have found a mentor on accident. So,,,,I have read the FAQ and have been reading Mountaineering freedom of the hills. My goals are to arm myself with as much knowledge as possible. I wanna have a basic understanding of climbing before I even touch an indoor wall. My name is Jason...I live in Ohio not the best place to learn climbing but oh well.
I will be more than happy to be a "belay betty" as long as I am learning.
My question is.....
When and I start learning to belay. I understand that learning the different styles of belay devices and methods are important.
Body Belay...limited can be dangerous/situational.
Figure 8...up/down versatility (classic?)
Munter Hitch...cheap n effective
tube/plate style. effective probably should have some experience. cheap.
Auto lock devices.
What would you folks recommend on the learning order with these different devices and methods.
Book recommendation on knots, what knots to absolutely know, whch ones to set aside for advanced climbing.
I seriously want to learn to do things correctly!
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coastal_climber
Sep 14, 2009, 3:23 PM
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Jayboflavin04 wrote: I will be more than happy to be a "belay betty" as long as I am learning.
It's Belay Bitch.
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Jayboflavin04
Sep 14, 2009, 3:25 PM
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"Betty/Bitch"...Think this is one situation that I will be happy to be a betty/bitch
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coastal_climber
Sep 14, 2009, 3:26 PM
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All your questions will be answered in a belay class at a gym, which I recommend you take, prior to diving in head first.
Learn how to tie this:
Get one of these:
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CSC0321
Sep 14, 2009, 3:46 PM
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I took a similar route to learning to climb. Reading is good but experience is better. Get outside or in the gym if you must and surround yourself with climbers. Impress them with your drive to learn and your desire to climb safe.
When it comes to belaying, most people go with the ATC when they first start. Its simple to learn and allows you to rappel. Don't worry about the other techniques, stick with the basics until you start doing multi-pitch climbs. Then you will want to know all of the belay techniques and as many knots at possible.
Personally I use the Cinch, but using an ATC or similar device is an essential skill for climbing.
Put yourself out there, and good luck.
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Carnage
Sep 14, 2009, 3:49 PM
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yea, stop reading and go to a gym. all of your questions would be answered in about 2 min at the gym
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limeydave
Sep 14, 2009, 4:26 PM
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Carnage wrote: yea, stop reading and go to a gym. all of your questions would be answered in about 2 min at the gym
^ what he said
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wilsowe
Sep 14, 2009, 4:38 PM
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Where are you located in OH? I'm new to climbing (and OH) myself. Been going to the gyms around Cincy for about a month now. If you're looking for someone to climb with let me know. It'll probably be awhile before I try outdoors but the gyms are plenty entertaining for now.
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majid_sabet
Sep 14, 2009, 5:40 PM
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kachoong wrote: Jayboflavin04 wrote: Munter Hitch...cheap n effective . 
Free ? you sure ?
A Munter without a biner is NOTHING therefore, its not free.
the only freebee is the body belay system
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Gmburns2000
Sep 14, 2009, 5:42 PM
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Just start with a tubular device such as an ATC and go from there. You'll pick up other stuff as needed when appropriate.
There's really no need to prepare before going to a gym. Most gyms have a basic learn-to-climb class that will teach you basics, and all you need to start out are the basics (particularly in a gym).
It's great that you're reading though. Reading now may help you advance a bit more easily with regards to the various techniques. But you won't understand a lot of what you're reading until you get out there and see it for yourself: play with the knots, practice belaying, fiddling with gear (eventually), etc.
Have fun and welcome to the sport.
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Gmburns2000
Sep 14, 2009, 5:43 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: kachoong wrote: Jayboflavin04 wrote: Munter Hitch...cheap n effective . Free ? you sure ? A Munter without a biner is NOTHING therefore, its not free. the only freebee is the body belay system
you sure? belaying without a rope is nothing, therefore it is not free.
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hafilax
Sep 14, 2009, 6:32 PM
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Jayboflavin04 wrote: Noob not even off the ground yet. I have been reading here for bout a week or so. I have been wanting to learrn rock climbing and may have found a mentor on accident. So,,,,I have read the FAQ and have been reading Mountaineering freedom of the hills. My goals are to arm myself with as much knowledge as possible. I wanna have a basic understanding of climbing before I even touch an indoor wall. My name is Jason...I live in Ohio not the best place to learn climbing but oh well. I will be more than happy to be a "belay betty" as long as I am learning. My question is..... When and I start learning to belay. I understand that learning the different styles of belay devices and methods are important. Body Belay...limited can be dangerous/situational. Figure 8...up/down versatility (classic?) Munter Hitch...cheap n effective tube/plate style. effective probably should have some experience. cheap. Auto lock devices. What would you folks recommend on the learning order with these different devices and methods. Book recommendation on knots, what knots to absolutely know, whch ones to set aside for advanced climbing. I seriously want to learn to do things correctly!
Learn to belay with a tube device and understand the principals of how they work.
Knots: 8, rewoven 8, 8-on-a-bight, overhand, overhand-on-a-bight, clove hitch, girth hitch (AKA lark's foot).
More advanced/ party tricks: alpine butterfly knot, Munter hitch, biner brake
I like the tech section of chockstone.org. There's a site somewhere with animated knots as well that's kind of fun.
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qwert
Sep 14, 2009, 6:41 PM
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Jayboflavin04 wrote: My question is..... When and I start learning to belay. I understand that learning the different styles of belay devices and methods are important. Body Belay...limited can be dangerous/situational. Figure 8...up/down versatility (classic?) Munter Hitch...cheap n effective tube/plate style. effective probably should have some experience. cheap. Auto lock devices. What would you folks recommend on the learning order with these different devices and methods. Book recommendation on knots, what knots to absolutely know, whch ones to set aside for advanced climbing. I seriously want to learn to do things correctly!
It is a noble thing that you want to be prepared, and that you actually read a book before posting here and read the FAQ.
but like others have said: you can only learn from a book/ the internet to a certain amount. After a while you have to get out/ to the gym and actually learn stuff hands on. but even when you have read everything it is still adviseable to go with an experienced mentor, or a class.
Nevertheless some answers to your questions:
what kind of belay method you are going to learn depends on the mentor/ gym. It will probably be ATC/ tube variant.
Personally i prefer the munter hitch, since it has higher braking strengths and is more tolerant to various hand positions. It maybe doesnt make sense to learn both at the same time (They do require fundamentally different braking hand positions!) but i would advice to learn both. Maybe first properly learn the method you get in a course, and then - with someone experienced with it - learn the other one.
Fig8 works quite similar to an ATC/tube, but it has less braking power and some other issues, so i would not bother with it. It still has some uses, but chances are quite good that you wont need them.
Other belay devices i would also not bother with at the beginning. Maybe stuff like the GriGri or chinch are nice for some situations but they are not really needed. I am climbing since a few years (dont actually know how many, something around 10+) and have never used a grigri i think.
Other stuff is mostly a variation of the principles used in ATCs/Tubes and should be easy to get once you have the ATC/Tube dialed.
Knots: figure8, the stupid named Euro death knot/ EDK, the knot to join tapes whose english name i forgot, munter hitch/clove hitch. those should cover the basics, and advanced probably too.
qwert
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Jayboflavin04
Sep 14, 2009, 9:32 PM
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Well, I am mostly reading to learn terminology and the very basic ideas.
As for the Mentor. I have not technically met him yet. I happened to start talking with his wife. She was telling me he has climbed "el cap" and has done alot of other routes out west. She was telling me he is always looking for new ppl to climb with. So, I am taking my meeting this gents wife as sign and a calling to following my dream.
So I wanna be able to speak to this guy intelligently, and be able to "size him up" if you will. They also have a home climbing wall and lots of extra gear. So I am crossing my fingers that he is legit and will take me under his wing. I also want to be able to make a good judgement on wether I want to trust this guy as well as him trusting me.
Sorry for a reduntant noob question. Apparently I didnt do to bad as no one told me "STFU noob"! :P
I also realize I cannot read and be a climber that I am gonna have to get out and do it. Hope it sooner than later. Thanks everyone for you polite responses. I will STFU now!
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kriso9tails
Sep 14, 2009, 9:34 PM
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qwert wrote: Maybe stuff like the GriGri or chinch are nice for some situations but they are not really needed.
They are not really needed... but he is pretty close to the RRG, so if he was going to end up climbing a lot of sport down there (or being belay bitch for it), I'd suggest a grigri or similar auto-locking belay device over a tube style device.
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kriso9tails
Sep 14, 2009, 9:43 PM
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Jayboflavin04 wrote: Sorry for a reduntant noob question. Apparently I didnt do to bad as no one told me "STFU noob"! :P I also realize I cannot read and be a climber that I am gonna have to get out and do it. Hope it sooner than later. Thanks everyone for you polite responses. I will STFU now!
STFU with your "I will STFU now!"... n00b!1!!!!!111111!!1!!!
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sungam
Sep 14, 2009, 9:46 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: kachoong wrote: Jayboflavin04 wrote: Munter Hitch...cheap n effective . Free ? you sure ? A Munter without a biner is NOTHING therefore, its not free. the only freebee is the body belay system
The munter is free.
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king_rat
Sep 15, 2009, 10:33 AM
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Its good that you want to learn and readying ahead will give you a good base.
If you are climbing in a gym then learn to use an ATC, its easy to use and is flexible. I
iIf you are going to climb outside then its worth learning how to belay without a belay device, like using a munters hitch or hip belay.
In regard to knots, at a very basic level you should be able to tie a Figure of 8 (and all the variations) and a clove hitch(which you should be able to tie with one hand). As you grow in experience and move out side you will need to learn about half a dozen knots.
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sungam
Sep 15, 2009, 12:09 PM
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king_rat wrote: iIf you are going to climb outside then its worth learning how to belay without a belay device, like using a munters hitch or hip belay.
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Jayboflavin04
Sep 15, 2009, 12:17 PM
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Totally understood Sungam. This is what brought the whole question up in the first place. Freedom of the hills takes a objective approch to discussing them, and their advantages and disadvantages. So I wanted opions as to what order to learn each style. I also understood that the munter is basically free minus rope and biner (i wanst gonna divide hairs tho)
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jmvc
Sep 15, 2009, 9:33 PM
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Yep, the munter is free, it stops hard, and as qwert mentioned locks off with the rope in more or less any position, but there is a reason why people don't use it all the time. If you tie one on a biner and mess around with it for a bit it will be quite obvious that it's stopping power relies partly on the rope biting itself, which will wear out your sheath faster than other devices.
Tube style devices such as atc's, reverso3s, etc, (I actually like the dirt cheap CAMP one quite a lot) are easier on the rope.
I like grigris, and you certain things with them easier than with tube devices (boinking and ascending rope, which is a PITA freehanging with an atc), and you can use them as ascenders and even (not recommended by manufacturer, and certainly not recommended by me for a beginner) self belay devices. However, there are actually more ways to mess up and drop someone with a grigri than an atc.
I've only belayed about 5 pitches with a cinch, and I was impressed by the feeding and taking, but had minor issues with unblocking it while loaded. This is probably due to me using it wrong, as many people seem to love it.
I belayed with fig8 exclusively for about 6 months and learned quite a few different ways to rig it that make for quite a versatile device, since some of my first climbing partners were a couple off 40 yo that had been climbing all their life with 8s (had a collection of them near worn through) and didn't want to know nothing about atc's or god forbid grigris, and while it is a perfectly safe belay device in competent hands, the atc is more suitable for your purposes.
Edit: On the reread I think I come across as very harsh on probably my most used belay device, the grigri. I'm not saying you shouldn't get one, just don't asume that because it says its autolocking, you barely have to know how to belay. I see that all too often. Although you come across as plenty clever enough in you posts to not try blatantly stupid stunts.
(This post was edited by jmvc on Sep 15, 2009, 9:38 PM)
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sungam
Sep 15, 2009, 9:42 PM
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jmvc wrote: Yep, the munter is free, it stops hard, and as qwert mentioned locks off with the rope in more or less any position, but there is a reason why people don't use it all the time. If you tie one on a biner and mess around with it for a bit it will be quite obvious that it's stopping power relies partly on the rope biting itself, which will wear out your sheath faster than other devices.
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cjon3s
Sep 16, 2009, 4:04 AM
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you need a rope. you fail. majidiot.
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TJGoSurf
Sep 17, 2009, 1:20 PM
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So this grigri, does it require pulling the rope thru? Because I'm really lazy.
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