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calpolyclimber
Dec 3, 2002, 6:54 AM
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I'm starting to put together a lead rack, and tricams have sparked my interest. Can they be placed in parallel cracks? Flaring? Do you guys use them much? They seem like a solid, economical piece of protection, and I was just wondering why I don't hear about them more often. Thanks in advance for any info/opinions.
~Alex
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pbjosh
Dec 3, 2002, 7:11 AM
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They are solid and reliable and cost effective. They can be placed (with care) in parallel cracks. However, I rarely use them. Here's the reason(s):
-They have to be tugged on to set so they won't walk/self clean, which makes them a bitch and a half to clean.
-They frequently are difficult to place correctly with one hand, if at all. When leading very difficult routes and placing gear from horrendous "stances" the speed of placement of a nut or cam over that of a tricam is all the difference in the world.
However, they have their place and there are places where only tricams will fit. Some people swear by them. The only time I carry mine are aiding (to fit odd places) and alpine climbs (super lightweight and generally I'll be able to fiddle with 'em to get a good placement for a while)...
josh
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danielb
Dec 3, 2002, 9:06 AM
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They are the bomb! I have 2 0.5 (pink ones) and a 1 (red one). They are great and feel very secure. I would recomend getting the small tricams before you get any cams as they are very good pieces of pro, especially for belays...
And they are a 1/3 the cost of cams. And I've never had to much bother placing them, I would recomend if you are getting one to see what they are like get the pink one. Its the one with several shrines to it on the web!!!
Daniel
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duskerhu
Dec 3, 2002, 9:38 AM
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Alex, here is another thread on Tri-Cams... Specifically, the smallest/pink one.
I think you find why some love em...
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=17326&forum=20&39
duskerhu
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galf
Dec 3, 2002, 7:32 PM
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The three smallest tricams are THE shit!
Get them!! (The pink one first!)
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nimo
Dec 3, 2002, 8:07 PM
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The small ones are vary handy up to #2 the 2.5 and 3 are also ok if you know you need them or for alpine stuff. The #3.5, 4, and 4.5 are IMHO a bit heavy for their size and usefulness, the #5 and up are not solid aluminum much lighter and are terrific especially in softer sandstone where thy bite really well. They work well when placed passively like a nut and are fast to place one handed. Places actively they are a little tricky but practice is the key to efficient one handed placement. They are a great asset to a beginning rack and can work wonders for belay stations. Just remember to give your self some time to get use to them and practice on the ground for a while with them. Defiantly get the pink one first.
Good luck and have fun. Nimo
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billcoe_
Dec 3, 2002, 8:18 PM
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If you're talking about the passive (non-spring loaded cams) cams: PB josh has the answer.
Check with people at your local climbing area first. You will almost never see them at Smith Rocks, but they are not uncommon at J-Tree.
The cracks are different. Smith is irregular and other pro works better and is faster (regular nuts and hexes), J-tree cracks can often be smooth and flaring. There are places at Jtree where only a tri-cam will work.
But- as PB says, they are slow to place.
I would personally avoid them, but as you see, some folks have some likeing for them.
B
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indeco
Dec 3, 2002, 8:51 PM
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Tri cams? I wouldn't trade mine in for anything. Like anything, practice makes perfect. With practice they are quick to place and remove. They are not that hard to remove. As most people indicate the first three are the most often used. I would say get two of each.
They are no good for fairing cracks.
Cheers
[ This Message was edited by: indeco on 2002-12-03 12:52 ]
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tradguy
Dec 3, 2002, 9:32 PM
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Don't waste your money on tri-cams. Regular spring loaded cams are much better for active gear, and nuts & hexes are much better (and cheaper) for passive gear. If tricams were about half their current price, they might be worth while, but since you can get a regular cam for the price of two tricams and still have some change left over, why even bother??
Don't let all those cult pinky-lovers pull you over to the dark side.
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krustyklimber
Dec 3, 2002, 9:38 PM
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They rock!!!
When they are the right thing, nothing but a sawed off angle will do the same job so for certain small pods they are great.
But as metioned they are not easy to place when sketchin'.
Jeff
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tradklime
Dec 3, 2002, 9:54 PM
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They can be placed actively or passively and offer great versatility. They are more expensive than hexes but will go anywhere a hex will and a lot more places a hex won't. They are also a great suppliment to nuts as the have a greater taper than most nuts and therefor will provide more surface contact when placed passively in certain situations.
However, like others have said, there are no true replacements for cams. So if that is what you are looking for, buy cams. Inexpensive cams are available.
[ This Message was edited by: tradklime on 2002-12-03 13:57 ]
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bradhill
Dec 3, 2002, 9:54 PM
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Malcom Daly is the guy who owns Trango. I don't think he has any problem with "affording" all the SLCDs he wants, but he swears by the smallest tri-cams plus a number 5 (because it and has the range of two larger cams and is lighter than either).
Depends where you climb. They're great at Eldo, the Flatirons and (I hear) at the Gunks. Not so useful at Yosemite and Indian Creek.
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climblouisiana
Dec 3, 2002, 10:06 PM
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They're great for horizontals and and especially useful for routes with otherwise unprotectable pockets.
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pbjosh
Dec 3, 2002, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
They are more expensive than hexes but will go anywhere a hex will and a lot more places a hex won't.
There are a lot of placements (at Jtree in particular, home to bottoming, flaring cracks) where a sideways nut or hex will work when nothing else will. I'd bet dollars to dimes that you wouldn't get good tricam placements in the spots I'm thinking of. FWIW, I only take hexes along at jtree if I know that I'm going to encounter such a spot. Luckily most of the flaring / weird cracks are small enough to be covered by a set of stoppers and a set of HB offsets. The #10-#13 BD stoppers, set sideways, are very common placements in Jtree.
Quote:
They are also a great suppliment to nuts as the have a greater taper than most nuts and therefor will provide more surface contact when placed passively in certain situations.
I'm having a hard time imagining when a tricam will have more surface area in contact than a nut? I can imagine a better placement (passive) for either a nut or a tricam but it would be a weird spot for a tricam to have more contact area as far as I can imagine...
josh
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jbrd528
Dec 3, 2002, 11:40 PM
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Tricams are generally the only things that will work on solution pockets. Whitehorse ledge, here in New Hampshire has many of these solution pockets. If you do any slab climbing they are generally very useful.
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tcollins
Dec 3, 2002, 11:59 PM
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I made my first trip to the Gunks this fall and I'm going back, that place rocks, but not till I double up on the first two and get the #2. They just instill confidence when you're above them. They can be tricky to place, but when I started, tying an 8 was tricky too. Like everything, it just takes practice. Heck, they're on my Christmas list
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tradklime
Dec 4, 2002, 4:15 AM
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pbjosh
I'm not going to start the whole hex debate again, but I'll stand by what I said. If you can place a hex passively you can place a tricam passively. The hex might make a better piece but... anyway I would use aliens in the placements I got from your description. Aliens rule.
As far as the relation to nuts, just imagine a tapered placement that better matches the shape of a tricam verses a BD nut that has less taper. The better the piece matches the shape of the placement, the more surface area contact.
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pbjosh
Dec 4, 2002, 4:32 AM
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tradklime -
I've placed plenty of tricams passively and know how they work, but I'd usually take a nut over a passive tricam, FWIW. Probably doesn't make a big difference.
I can personally show you numerous climbs at jtree where a tricam would not work but a sideways nut or small hex will, these are generally shallow, bottomed, rounded and flared. They kind of have "lips", take a look at enough jtree crack picture and you'll understand. Alot of these fit a sideways nut or hex like magic. I really do not believe that triams would fit, the major reason being the trick to these placements is that the piece going in is much wider than it is deep. I don't think a tricam placed passively would catch on the point side and placed actively would just fall/flip out.... Aliens won't work in these placements.
There are a lot of placements in jtree where solution pockets are the only option. Generally aliens are a lot faster to place on these than tricams. Try leading Left Ski Track and you'll understand
josh
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nimo
Dec 4, 2002, 5:40 AM
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pbjosh & tradklime you both have made some great points as to the usefulness of tricams and for that I thank you both. Just a few things, Tricams are not for all arias we all agree and we all agree that they are vary useful in other arias. Tricams need to have the time invested in them to become fluent in their placement and understand the benefit they poses. I would offer that offset cams like the Aliens work wonders well in outward flaring cracks yet a side ways hex or nut can also work well, it depends on your proficiency with your gear and the placement. Placements often have more then one solution that will work just like mathematical proofs, the trick is to find the best one in the least amount of time, it comes down to practice with and knowledge of your gear. Thank you both for sharing your knowledge and experiences and keeping thing civil unlike others have done on the sight when there are minor differences in points of view.
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nite_climber
Dec 4, 2002, 4:11 PM
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Tri-cams are useful depending on the area. Horizontal cracks, such as those found at the Gunks, solution pockets, and sometimes behind solid flakes are great places for tri-cams. They instill a lot of confidence in those placements. I have found that they fit into old pin scars nicely as well.
Like anything, practice makes one proficient at placing them. I did not have any cams on my first rack, but had tri-cams so I can now place them efficiently. Hell, I have had the pink tri-cam save me from decking. I have fallen on them several times and love them.
Great discussion on the pros & cons of tri-cams. To me they are very useful, but living in another area, I could see you may not even know what they are.
Merry Xmas
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rockprodigy
Dec 4, 2002, 4:38 PM
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For me personally, I'd save your money and get an SLCD. You'll use it way more. I think that if you're on terrain that is easy enough for you to let go with both hands to place the tricam, then you probably don't need gear anyway, just run it out. You may have a point if you're talking aid climbing, where you usually have both hands free....
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 4, 2002, 5:04 PM
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I am fairly new to lead climbing, but have used tricams to set up anchors. I love them. They often fit into cracks that nuts or hexes will slide out. When leading you need a variety but I would definitely reccommend a couple of them on your rack.
josh s
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bennett
Dec 4, 2002, 5:27 PM
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horizontals -- check
solution pockets-- check
two handed placement-- check
obviously these three points have implications for the particular route/area and difficulty.
they are indespensible at certian areas [whithorse, nc domes, gunks]
useless at others
i always bring my set racked on one biner -- 2 pinks, 2 reds, 1 next size up [brown I think right?]
for the weight and slim profile they add a lot of bang for not so much bucks [in terms of $$ and lbs]
check archives of other sites, rec.climbing comes to mind.
All that said -- I think they look rad too! old school to be sure but they scream trad to me -- maybe it's because I leared at looking glass, but still no need to disregard fashion if the funtionality is sound.
B
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mikemachineco
Dec 4, 2002, 5:35 PM
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Might I add that they also can work great in pin scars, particularly at places like Zion.
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tradklime
Dec 4, 2002, 7:32 PM
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pbjosh,
I'll defer to your expertise on jtree because I haven't climbed there yet. My original comment related to hexes, and when I think of hexes I think of the larger ones, the smaller ones are just different shaped nuts in my mind. There is no replacement for nuts, I always climb with a double set. I think we definitely agree on nuts.
Nimo's comments sum it up best (thanks nimo), we all draw from different experiences and preferences, and that is why this is a good place to get info, lots of different perspectives.
Based on my experience, with a set of nuts and a set of cams (especially aliens), you can climb most anything. Certain areas and certain climbs may have specific protection needs, but generally speaking. To diversify further, I think tricams are great, versatile, and sometimes offer bomber pro where nothing else will.
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