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evanwish
Nov 19, 2009, 11:45 PM
Post #26 of 34
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Registered: May 23, 2007
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johncg wrote: what exactly did you do for your eagle project
well i first had two very ambitious plans, each got shot down by the forest service. One was to build an observation deck at this city park over looking a river (the park LOVED the idea), the second was to restore a quarter mile trail that had gone overgrown because of yearly flooding from that same river. I also wanted to do a 30 foot section of raised plank trail (forgot what its called).
I ended up settling for restoring the location where they had torn down a cabin because a natural spring had appeared under it and rotted the cabin. Every year it dumbed an excessive amount of sediment into the river muddying it up for months. So i restored it by erosion control techniques and replanting. Also to the side of it, we cut a short trail out of the hill, retaining the uphill side by logs the forest service had cut, and placed a small concrete pad and A-frame swinging bench at the end.
Overall, it was a lot of work, but was a VERY nice end result. I've maintain it every spring and fall since.
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TheRucat
Nov 20, 2009, 1:19 AM
Post #27 of 34
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Registered: Dec 21, 2008
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adatesman wrote: johncg wrote: haha i know thats we hand picked the kids that dont suck at everything Silly me, thinking the Boy Scouts were a welcoming, inclusive sort of group.
The Boy Scouts are also supposed to be an elite group of outdoorsmen with extraordinary leadership and survival skills. But like I said I'm an Eagle Scout, and I can honestly say the most I got out of it was a PBA card.
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d0nk3yk0n9
Nov 20, 2009, 1:37 AM
Post #28 of 34
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Registered: Jan 22, 2009
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dugl33 wrote: rockclimber919 wrote: I'm a BSA climbing instructor in Texas. Since you are still attached to your troop, and not a venture crew, go to your troop's committee and submit a request for gear. Have the troop start getting troop gear. then you don't have to use as much personal gear. and just an fyi, if you haven't been through a BSA instructor class, scouts are UBER ANAL about safety, and pretty much everything has to be done on a top rope. to lead climb you have to have another top belay. stuff like that. it sucks. start off with 5-10 harnesses and helmets, a few static ropes, about 15 steel biners and lots of webbing. that is enough to run your troop through a few climbs. hope this helps. I know some guides set up top ropes with static line, but it only takes one belayer letting too much slack develop to create some monsterous loads on the anchors. I'd opt for beefy 11 mm dynamic ropes, with carefully constructed anchors which minimize friction at the clip in point. Beginners are tough on gear. Also, consider buying a few harnasses like the BD vario. One size fits most. If I saw a group of 10 scouts climbing, I'd run the other way, and I earned my eagle scout BITD. Start with a smaller group and not more than two top ropes at a time. Remember the adults normally keeping an eye on things, in this case, probably won't know what they are doing. [Inline vario_harness.jpg]
When Scouts use static ropes, it's usually for rappelling, not for top roping. In fact, I'm fairly certain that this is a requirement, but I'd have to dig up my copy of the current regs to be sure.
I'm an instructor for BSA for both COPE and Climbing btw.
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acorneau
Nov 20, 2009, 1:55 AM
Post #29 of 34
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Registered: Feb 6, 2008
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d0nk3yk0n9 wrote: When Scouts use static ropes, it's usually for rappelling, not for top roping. In fact, I'm fairly certain that this is a requirement, but I'd have to dig up my copy of the current regs to be sure.
No, not a requirement.
Again, units only have to follow Climb On Safely, not National Standards. Also, Topping Out is BSA's recommended practices, not rules.
(edit for correction)
(This post was edited by acorneau on Nov 20, 2009, 8:57 PM)
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dugl33
Nov 20, 2009, 2:47 AM
Post #30 of 34
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Registered: Oct 6, 2009
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acorneau wrote: d0nk3yk0n9 wrote: When Scouts use static ropes, it's usually for rappelling, not for top roping. In fact, I'm fairly certain that this is a requirement, but I'd have to dig up my copy of the current regs to be sure. No, not a requirement. Climbing on dynamic rope is a requirement for district/council activities. Again, units only have to follow Climb On Safely, not National Standards. Also, Topping Out is BSA's recommended practices, not rules.
Well, bottom line is
*static is safe for rappelling
*probably safe for top rope climbing (with an attentive belayer and minimal slack)
*not safe for lead (duh)
The fact that a rope can withstand 5000 lb of force won't matter when / if the anchor rips.
The scout requirements are vaque. They specify the static rope reqs when used for rappelling (does not say must be used for rappelling)
States climbing rope must be 10.5 mm min for climbing, but does not state must be dynamic, although maybe one would infer this, as dynamic rope is always sized in mm, static frequently in inches.
M26
All ropes used for climbing must be kernmantle and must be UIAA- or CE-approved. All static ropes used for rappelling must have a tensile strength(breaking strength) rating of at least 22.2 kiloNewtons (5,000 pounds) when new. A diameter of 7/16 inch or 11 millimeters is recommended for static rappelling ropes; every climbing rope must have a minimum diameter of 10.5 millimeters. All ropes and nylon webbing must be new when procured.
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acorneau
Nov 20, 2009, 3:18 AM
Post #31 of 34
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Registered: Feb 6, 2008
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dugl33 wrote: acorneau wrote: No, not a requirement. Climbing on dynamic rope is a requirement for district/council activities. M26 All ropes used for climbing must be kernmantle and must be UIAA- or CE-approved. All static ropes used for rappelling must have a tensile strength(breaking strength) rating of at least 22.2 kiloNewtons (5,000 pounds) when new. A diameter of 7/16 inch or 11 millimeters is recommended for static rappelling ropes; every climbing rope must have a minimum diameter of 10.5 millimeters. All ropes and nylon webbing must be new when procured.
Right you are.
Edit: I have edited my previous post for the correction.
(This post was edited by acorneau on Nov 20, 2009, 8:58 PM)
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d0nk3yk0n9
Nov 20, 2009, 8:50 PM
Post #32 of 34
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Registered: Jan 22, 2009
Posts: 182
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acorneau wrote: d0nk3yk0n9 wrote: When Scouts use static ropes, it's usually for rappelling, not for top roping. In fact, I'm fairly certain that this is a requirement, but I'd have to dig up my copy of the current regs to be sure. No, not a requirement. Climbing on dynamic rope is a requirement for district/council activities. Again, units only have to follow Climb On Safely, not National Standards. Also, Topping Out is BSA's recommended practices, not rules.
I keep forgetting that units don't have to follow the same standards as council events. Such is life when the council COPE/Climbing committee chair has put you in charge of making sure that we've accounted for any changes to the standards from year to year.
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rockclimber919
Nov 22, 2009, 6:15 AM
Post #33 of 34
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Registered: Nov 10, 2008
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the only reason i say to get static is that most of our council ropes are static. we have a few dynamic, by mostly static. you can use both in scouts
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altelis
Nov 22, 2009, 6:49 PM
Post #34 of 34
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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rockclimber919 wrote: the only reason i say to get static is that most of our council ropes are static. we have a few dynamic, by mostly static. you can use both in scouts
I don't think the question about static v dynamic for top belay is about what you can use but rather what is the better choice. Pretty sure the laws of physics is the same for scouts and non scouts....
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