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Tonka
Dec 29, 2009, 10:54 PM
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Howdy folks, newby here and wanting to learn more on ice climbing. I have enrolled in a ice climb day [coming up] and would like to read more about the ins/outs of ice climbing as it's something im going to pursue living here in the great white fridge.....suggestions?
Sorry guys not really into rock climbing [can do it but just not my thing] so "ice only" reading please.
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cush
Dec 29, 2009, 11:13 PM
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even if rock climbing isn't your thing you should learn a thing or two (or 30) about it. a strong background in rock isn't required for ice but it sure helps.
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Tonka
Dec 29, 2009, 11:20 PM
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cush wrote: even if rock climbing isn't your thing you should learn a thing or two (or 30) about it. a strong background in rock isn't required for ice but it sure helps.
Very true....but my biggest challenge is actualy finding indoor or climbing for that matter as i travel for a living so i have to make it fit my schedual. Reading speeds up/enhances the learning curve so that when i do take climbing lessons i'm aware of whats going on and can make the most of it...airplanes get VERY boring when your on them 2 to 6 times a week!!!
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LoneWolf1986
Dec 30, 2009, 1:21 AM
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Exactly. Fill those boring hours on the plane with some instruction. Freedom of the Hills is the climbing bible. Everything from basic safety and technique to snow, alpine and ice skills are covered. It is essential for every aspiring and experienced mountaineer.
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cantbuymefriends
Dec 30, 2009, 10:35 AM
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Ditto that.
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Tonka
Dec 30, 2009, 11:18 AM
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Thanks guys...and the library has it, so i will get it tomorrow! Reading material for my fly on sunday, great!
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zealotnoob
Dec 30, 2009, 1:51 PM
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I too learned by reading everything I could get my hands on. However, once you get on the sharp end, you'll find that the important stuff isn't found in the books. There's no way around practice and training.
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Tonka
Dec 30, 2009, 2:03 PM
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zealotnoob wrote: I too learned by reading everything I could get my hands on. However, once you get on the sharp end, you'll find that the important stuff isn't found in the books. There's no way around practice and training.
True That!!! no replacement for the hands on experience...
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brokesomeribs
Dec 30, 2009, 5:40 PM
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If you think finding the time to rock climb is difficult with your schedule, you're gonna be a very infrequently climbing ice climber.
Also, I will reiterate what everyone else has said - go rock climbing. Having to fumble around with building anchors while you're soaking wet, frozen solid, the wind is howling, and spindrift and ice chunks are falling into your eyes is a quick way to get turned off the sport.
Better to learn on 80 degree days in shorts and a t shirt.
You need to ease into the misery of winter climbing slowly.
As far as books: How to Ice Climb (by Craig Luebben), Extreme Alpinism (Mark Twight), and Climbing Anchors: 2nd Ed. (John Long) should be on your reading list as well.
(This post was edited by brokesomeribs on Dec 30, 2009, 5:40 PM)
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Tonka
Dec 30, 2009, 5:47 PM
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brokesomeribs wrote: If you think finding the time to rock climb is difficult with your schedule, you're gonna be a very infrequently climbing ice climber. Also, I will reiterate what everyone else has said - go rock climbing. Having to fumble around with building anchors while you're soaking wet, frozen solid, the wind is howling, and spindrift and ice chunks are falling into your eyes is a quick way to get turned off the sport. Better to learn on 80 degree days in shorts and a t shirt. You need to ease into the misery of winter climbing slowly. As far as books: How to Ice Climb (by Craig Luebben), Extreme Alpinism (Mark Twight), and Climbing Anchors: 2nd Ed. (John Long) should be on your reading list as well.
No need to easy into the missery...i'm looking out at a foot of snow and 3 to 4 more months of bellow zero temps [i live in Canada...eyh..lol]..living the misery....
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midwestpaul
Dec 30, 2009, 6:24 PM
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I think what brokesomeribs is trying to say is that inclement conditions make it harder to practice and learn solid skills about the climbing system. Because the system is what keeps you safe (relatively) while climbing, practicing the system in an environment where you can fully focus would set you up for success. As a beginner you are dealing with new skills, often in exposed situations, and adding cold weather to the mix just ups the challenge.
Not saying that it can't be done. Just saying that eleminating the bad weather while learning new skills with help you survive the climbing learning curve.
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clc
Dec 31, 2009, 12:33 AM
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Ice and mixed climbing by Wil Gadd is the best and more for a beginner than Twights alpine oriented book.
Freedom of the hills is very basic. and generally gives poor advice on ice climbing techniques for steep stuff. But you will get the basic idea.
Also Ice World by jeff lowe has some good info
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zchandran
Dec 31, 2009, 8:18 PM
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I've been toying with the idea of trying it out. And by "toying" I mean alternately looking at cool photos and cringing when seeing what the gear costs. Are there any one or two day classes within a reasonable distance of St. Louis? Climbing a frozen waterfall looks incredibly fun, but the trad gear I've purchased in bits and pieces this year has been painful enough.
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coastal_climber
Dec 31, 2009, 9:04 PM
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Look around for guiding services in your area that do ice instruction classes. This would be the best way to jump into ice, unless you can find someone to take you along. If you can get yourself a good pair of boots, and perhaps some tools & crampons, you may be able to hook up with someone willing to take you out.
Good luck!
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kheegster
Dec 31, 2009, 9:53 PM
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I don't know about St Louis, but in areas with ice climbing, gear stores often rent ice climbing gear, which would be a good way to get started.
I suspect you'd have to get out to the Great Lakes for any climbable ice.
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zchandran
Jan 22, 2010, 10:48 PM
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Been steadily researching this, and I'm leaning towards starting out at the ice silo at Cedar Falls, IA. Since they already have ropes set up, hopefully I can figure out the basic moves without decking and/or impaling myself on my crampons.
Has anyone climbed over there? I'd like to buy the boots and crampons before heading out but I would need to rent axes somewhere in the vicinity since I can't find anyone in St. Louis who rents ice climbing gear.
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EvilMonkey
Jan 23, 2010, 12:37 AM
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from the pics i've seen, i'm assuming that the ice silo in iowa is toprope only. that said, decking out ain't likely. you should find an ice festival somewhere and sign-up for the clinics ahead of time. that would be cheaper than hiring a private guide. the cody ice fest is sometime around feb 12. u can google it. the ones in ouray and boseman have already come and gone. the bottom line, though, is that u just can't really do it where u are. head west! and dont forget, you're not really ice climbing until you're on lead.
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blueeyedclimber
Jan 23, 2010, 7:11 PM
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Tonka wrote: Howdy folks, newby here and wanting to learn more on ice climbing. I have enrolled in a ice climb day [coming up] and would like to read more about the ins/outs of ice climbing as it's something im going to pursue living here in the great white fridge.....suggestions? Sorry guys not really into rock climbing [can do it but just not my thing] so "ice only" reading please.
I have been rock climbing for about 8 years, and finally got out on ice for the first time recently.
Suggestions? I have a few. Let's start with the most important one.
1. Don't hit yourself in the face with your axe. It hurts. alot.
2. Having a strong background of climbing really helped the learned curve as far as technique, movement and body position.
3. From a climbing perspective, the biggest thing I had to learn was how to use the equipment. Here are some tips.
3a. Swing more from the wrists, not from the shoulders.
3b. Look for holes/pick scars that are already there. You don't need to swing each time.
3c. After getting a good pick placement, move the handle in, close to the ice. Pulling out too much has a good chance of breaking the ice. This has a lot to do with my first suggestion  . Also, keeping the picks high away from your face is a good idea.
3d. Kick with the cramp-ons with a level boot, then lower your heel to engage the secondary points.
Good luck.
Josh
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mic_72
Jan 29, 2010, 10:07 AM
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I have some tips that might be of some value...
Balance is really important. I've never taken a coarse or read books about the actual physical part of climbing, so I'm kind of self taught. I've found that balance is very important, and where you place your axes will affect your balance probably more than you would think. Your axes placements are going to dictate where you can put your feet. In the beginning you're going to find yourself not being able to use many good foot placements because of crappy axe work. Try to be conscious of what you can do with your feet after placing your axes. When you have to place your foot straight on vertical ice less than a foot from a great little bulge because your balance is off, then it is likely that your axe placement sucked. For me this took a while to realize. Being conscious of this from the start will probably help you progress faster.
The axe swing itself is important too. Don't hold the grip firmly as the tip of your axe hits the ice. You need to hold it in order to get the speed up, but just as the tip is going to hit the ice you kind of have to let go a bit and let the axe do the work. I like to think of it as swinging a revolver around my finger, letting the axe role over my finger and do it's job. If you find your axes bouncing of the ice a lot, you're probably gripping it to hard as it hits the ice.
Thick gloves might seem warm, but the thicker they are, the harder it is to hold on to your axes and forces you to grip harder. Gripping too hard will tire you quicker and can cause "the screaming barfies" easier. For me and many others, gloves is the hardest bit of kit to find the perfect working sollution.
Leashes or no leashes? Well, if you're not on multipitch ice I say go leashless. I don't use those flashy Nomics or Ergo what ever axes, I have a pair of old Quarks with a griprest hook on the end and I climb mostly leashless. For leading and seconding it's much easier that having to deal with a leash and you can shake out much easier. On top rope you can consider it training and will gain strength on your grip. On multipitch ice with steep and hard parts I put on a pair of leashes I have constructed myself. They actually are not "leashes", they are straps that go over my hand with a ring between my thumb and index finger. On my axes I have a hook which I just place this ring over when I grip the axe. So you don't have to go totally leashless to avoid having to do with leashes. Using a system like this has all the advantages of climbing leashless, except being able to brag that you climb leashless (if that's your sort of thing). I've seen a sollution like this sold somewhere but it was extreamly expensive. I butchered the leashes that came with my axes to make my own. Just note that a leash system like mine will give extra support, but it won't keep you from dropping an axe. Keep an open mind and you can create custom solutions that work for you.
What about so called chicken slings? Personally I'm terrified of those things! Imagen your feet popping off when you are looking up, you cant hold on to your axes, you land on one of those dynamic chicken slings, it stretches, your axe comes loose and wham! It smacks you right in the face! I don't use axes with hammers only, I use one with a hammer and one with the little shovel (I find it useful for clearing out crappy snow/ice). I don't want to know what would happen if that shovel slingshotted itself into my eye.
Don't believe everything you read. All over you can read that crampons with vertical aligned front points are the best for steep waterfall ice. I'm guessing that most of the people who say this have probably not tried a pair of good horizontal front pointed crampons... So for years I bought this until I actually tried a pair of crampons with horizontal front points and I've never looked back since. Maybe it's because of my crappy climbing style. You see, on vertical hard ice with vertical front points you have to keep your heels low or you might force the tip of your crampons to pop off. With horizontal front points this problem is nonexistent, you can raise your heel as you please. Also, you don't have to kick the crampons in that far to get decent leverage with horizontal front points, so there is not much need for these extremely pointy tips that are on vertical frontpoints. I've been climbing for a while now on all kinds of ice in all kinds of temperatures with horizontal front points and I have yet to come accross ice where I think vertical frontpoints would be better. These may not be the best for you but just keep an open mind and try out different kinds of gear before you buy your own if possible. If you do try horizontal style front points you do need a good pair like BD sabretooth pro, not some crappy alloy glacier crampons.
Hopefully some of this is useful info for you. Good luck, be safe and have fun!
Sorry about all the spelling and grammar mistakes. The language police here could probably have a great time... but I'm from Sweden and my English is not the best.
(This post was edited by mic_72 on Jan 29, 2010, 1:18 PM)
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sandstone
Jan 29, 2010, 2:46 PM
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In addition to reading, get the video "Waterfall Ice: Jeff Lowe's climbing techniques".
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mikebarter387
Jan 29, 2010, 2:53 PM
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dr_feelgood
Jan 29, 2010, 3:17 PM
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brokesomeribs wrote: If you think finding the time to rock climb is difficult with your schedule, you're gonna be a very infrequently climbing ice climber. Also, I will reiterate what everyone else has said - go rock climbing. Having to fumble around with building anchors while you're soaking wet, frozen solid, the wind is howling, and spindrift and ice chunks are falling into your eyes is a quick way to get turned off the sport. Better to learn on 80 degree days in shorts and a t shirt. You need to ease into the misery of winter climbing slowly. As far as books: How to Ice Climb (by Craig Luebben), Extreme Alpinism (Mark Twight), and Climbing Anchors: 2nd Ed. (John Long) should be on your reading list as well.
Shut the fuck up, Nancy.
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altelis
Jan 29, 2010, 3:22 PM
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Ice Porn: The Movie! Awesome. When's the sequal coming out? I hear Jenna Haze is available...
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brokesomeribs
Jan 29, 2010, 4:06 PM
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I was saying that so he doesn't die. I'm in NJ - want to get out and climb some time?
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