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el_guapo
Feb 4, 2010, 7:28 AM
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Has anyone else noticed the fake mammut "windstopper" soft shell jackets coming out of China? Are they really fake? I know for a fact that both ebay and Mammut have been informed about the counterfeit clothing yet they are still listed. Is this a lower quality line?
Has anyone bought one of these?
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johnwesely
Feb 4, 2010, 1:27 PM
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I couldn't find what you were talking about. Could you post a link?
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qtm
Feb 4, 2010, 3:30 PM
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Well, it's hard to say. There are bad fakes, good fakes, and "third shift" fakes.
The bad fakes are generally easy to spot in person (and sometimes online). They use cheap materials, shoddy construction, sometimes even spell the brand wrong. They're cheap, but you know they're fake.
The good fakes are harder to distinguish, unless you have them side by side with the real product. Then you'll see things like seams that are only single stitched, inferior zippers, lighter weigh materials. Things like this are hard to spot in pictures.
Then there are the "third shift" fakes. These are produced in the same factory as the originals, by the same workers. Called "third shift" because entrepreneurs bribe the plant manager and the workers to come back after hours and do another production run. Using high quality materials, you get stuff that is impossible to tell from the "real".
Unless you buy from an authorized reseller, you just don't know if it's real or not. On the other hand, there have been cases of scum resellers buying fakes and selling them as real.
Aside from the political and social issues and speaking strictly of the final product... good quality fakes might be just as good as the real, or at least worth the price. You might not want to take a fake up K2, but it's probably fine going from the parking lot to the mall.
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el_guapo
Feb 4, 2010, 3:51 PM
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well here is a link
http://cgi.ebay.com/...?hash=item5d27d5768a
or just type mammut in the search bar on ebay and look at most anything that is much cheaper than it should be from china.
Thanks for the skinny of fake stuff I never knew about third shift fakes but that must be why there is so much fake polo stuff in Thailand because a lot of it is made there.
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dingus
Feb 4, 2010, 4:27 PM
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eBay seems to dwarf the mafia and the cartels COMBINED, as the largest criminal organization in the history of man.
DMT
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tigerlilly
Feb 4, 2010, 6:05 PM
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$35 shipping!?! Yikes.
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Kevthecoffeeguy
Feb 4, 2010, 9:24 PM
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tigerlilly wrote: $35 shipping!?! Yikes.
many ebay sellers use lower prices to get sales. then they have infated shipping cost to offset the "lower" price. I have never understood it. Someone I know told me last summer what a great deal they got on ome items on ebey with buy now. yet they paid about 18 bucks for shipping per item.
I pointed out that all 4 items could have been shipped togeather with 3 day priority shipping for less than he paid on shipping for 1 item.
Just geos to show many buyers do not see the overall picture. I would like to think most people are smarter than that but.....
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jeepnphreak
Feb 4, 2010, 10:01 PM
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el_guapo wrote: Has anyone else noticed the fake mammut "windstopper" soft shell jackets coming out of China? Are they really fake? I know for a fact that both ebay and Mammut have been informed about the counterfeit clothing yet they are still listed. Is this a lower quality line? Has anyone bought one of these?
Well 35 bucks for shipping= bull shit! another reason Iam not a big ebayer.
and next the so called english makes me wonder how or if there would be much sucess if you indeed neede to return an item. Man, their grammer and spelling is worse than mine. yieks!
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DaveFurman
Feb 4, 2010, 10:19 PM
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I work for Mammut.
Those items are fake, Mammut is working with EBay to have the items removed. Those products are cheap counterfiet knockoffs that use cheap fabrics and construction methods, but have used the Mammut name without permission.
(This post was edited by DaveFurman on Feb 4, 2010, 10:21 PM)
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milesenoell
Feb 4, 2010, 10:36 PM
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Shopping in China is a bizarre experience due to all the knock offs. Most of the stuff that is sold is total crap, or as happened to me, the display model is real, but the one they sell you is an identical knock off piece of shit. North Face stuff is made there, so you can often find good fakes and third shifts, but they usually require sketchy back alley bargaining rather than being out in the stalls like the other crap. You also need to haggle the hell out of everything, so it's not like you know immediately if you are just wasting your time, even when you do track down a good item you need.
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USnavy
Feb 4, 2010, 11:58 PM
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dingus wrote: eBay PayPal seems to dwarf the mafia and the cartels COMBINED, as the largest criminal organization in the history of man. DMT
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dingus
Feb 5, 2010, 12:18 AM
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USnavy wrote: dingus wrote: eBay PayPal seems to dwarf the mafia and the cartels COMBINED, as the largest criminal organization in the history of man. DMT True.
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1017-941964.html
True.
DMT
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Adk
Feb 5, 2010, 1:57 AM
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I wonder if these are fake too!
http://cgi.ebay.com/...?hash=item2a04814073
Sold by the same person.
I think Mammut should buy one of these to really determine if it is fake or not. Maybe I will buy one to compare it to the one I currently own just to come back and tell you... YEP! It's the same thing.
If the item is a different color than Mammut offers we know instantly it is a fake and should take action. It might be a good product though yet it would be a misrepresentation of the brand.
People sell crap all the time on Ebay. People misrepresent too! As long as the buyer is cool with a lie that they have been told and are happy with the product.
Like many soft goods overseas they are made cheaply, well constructed and overpriced for a special logo.
As with all Ebay picture deals, you never know until you get it in your hand. The online auction risk.
** I own and paid a good price for some of those special logos too!
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jeepnphreak
Feb 5, 2010, 5:14 AM
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I would say its a good possibility. My wifes sister picked up a anime set from ebay that turned out to be a bootleg. The Anime had not evan been released in the US yet. But it was fun, the anime was in Japanese and the olny subtitles were in Mandren(sp?) chineese.
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milesenoell
Feb 5, 2010, 5:22 AM
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The fact the seller has over a thousand sales and as good a rating as the completely legit sellers suggests that they are of good quality, whether or not they are authentic.
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milesenoell
Feb 5, 2010, 5:35 AM
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dingus wrote: USnavy wrote: dingus wrote: eBay PayPal seems to dwarf the mafia and the cartels COMBINED, as the largest criminal organization in the history of man. DMT True. True. DMT
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c4c
Feb 5, 2010, 11:18 AM
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except that ebay now requires sellers to accept paypal. And paypal will refund the buyers money for any reason even if it was listed as sold as is/ no returns etc.
Ebay/paypal is no longer seller friendly IMO and I am done with them.
Oh and their customer service sucks.
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gmggg
Feb 5, 2010, 2:40 PM
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Adk wrote: I wonder if these are fake too! http://cgi.ebay.com/...?hash=item2a04814073 Sold by the same person. I think Mammut should buy one of these to really determine if it is fake or not. Maybe I will buy one to compare it to the one I currently own just to come back and tell you... YEP! It's the same thing. If the item is a different color than Mammut offers we know instantly it is a fake and should take action. It might be a good product though yet it would be a misrepresentation of the brand. People sell crap all the time on Ebay. People misrepresent too! As long as the buyer is cool with a lie that they have been told and are happy with the product. Like many soft goods overseas they are made cheaply, well constructed and overpriced for a special logo. As with all Ebay picture deals, you never know until you get it in your hand. The online auction risk. ** I own and paid a good price for some of those special logos too!
I was in China around the time that the first Spiderman movie came out. I bought a bootleg copy, everything looked legit, nice case, full booklet/titlecard, professional looking printed disc. When I put the movie in I was surprised to find "Earth vs. the spider" playing. At least they kept with the general theme.
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I_do
Feb 5, 2010, 2:46 PM
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c4c wrote: except that ebay now requires sellers to accept paypal. And paypal will refund the buyers money for any reason even if it was listed as sold as is/ no returns etc. Ebay/paypal is no longer seller friendly IMO and I am done with them. Oh and their customer service sucks.
I kinda like my companies buyer friendly and think it;s a good thing you can get a refund on anything you buy. It works like that in a shop why should online be any different?
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milesenoell
Feb 5, 2010, 4:08 PM
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c4c wrote: except that ebay now requires sellers to accept paypal. And paypal will refund the buyers money for any reason even if it was listed as sold as is/ no returns etc. Ebay/paypal is no longer seller friendly IMO and I am done with them. Oh and their customer service sucks.
Considering that everything bought on eBay is necessarily bought without being able to examine what you are buying, I don't see that as unreasonable at all. If they have to choose between being seller or buyer oriented to keep defective items from being passed off, I'm fully in favor of their choice to be buyer oriented. The seller gets their item back and if it's worth anything they can re-sell it to someone else.
As for requiring sellers to accept PayPal, I fail to see why that is so bad... unless you are trying to sell junk and don't want the buyer to be able to get a refund.
Especially when you consider that eBay and the bidding model of sales inflates prices above what you could expect from other modes of sale, I have a hard time feeling too sorry for sellers. We are talking about a ridiculously easy way to sell things for top price. If you have a better alternative, then don't use them. But talking about eBay as though they are corrupt is a bit silly.
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milesenoell
Feb 5, 2010, 4:13 PM
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dingus wrote: eBay seems to dwarf the mafia and the cartels COMBINED, as the largest criminal organization in the history of man. DMT
I tend to think that the World Bank is more deserving of that title.
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aerili
Feb 5, 2010, 7:40 PM
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DaveFurman wrote: I work for Mammut.
Hi Dave, I have a question about Mammut: why is Mammut clothing soooo expensive? I mean, it almost makes Patagonia look like a bargain!
No offense, but I honestly cannot see how its fabrics or construction is any better than stuff from Patagucci, Marmot, Mountain Hardwear, etc. I see stuff from Mammut every so often in the Sierra Trading Post store in town where I live--and the "bargain prices" are STILL enough to knock your socks off when compared to similar products from competitors hanging on the rack right next to it!
Any insight would be great! Thanks.
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DaveFurman
Feb 5, 2010, 8:51 PM
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In general there are construction differences in most items, either a different material or a different method of construction or both that make it more expensive--branded fabrics have a performance edge, a more tailored fit costs more to cut and sew, etc--you have to decide if those benefits fit with what you want and are important enough for you to merit the extra cost. When we can we try to peg our pricing within the realm of what other companies in our market charge for similar items, so we should be fairly close to the other companies using the same fabrics and features--but yes, this is often more than some other brands.
More info than that is probably more appropriate to a conversation over a beer than it is to a typewritten response, but hope it helps.
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scotty1974
Feb 5, 2010, 9:28 PM
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I use Ebay alot still, but I got totally ripped of by a buyer in Germany. Bought a Arcteryx belay jacket off me, then a month later said all he got was a towel in a box. After fighting with paypal, they awarded him the money. Like I was going to take the trouble to send a towel to Germany.
I hope he enjoys his free jacket...
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scottek67
Feb 5, 2010, 10:11 PM
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dingus wrote: eBay seems to dwarf the mafia and the cartels COMBINED, as the largest criminal organization in the history of man. DMT 
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