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nmak
Apr 11, 2010, 9:14 PM
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Hi, I've been climbing for a couple of months, but I'm trying to figure out when it's right to offer help or suggestions when climbing. I was climbing a difficult bouldering route the other day, and was pretty annoyed when someone told me how to do it when I couldn't get it. I like being able to figure out problems on my own, and I only really offer help to others if they ask for it, or if they're completely lost. Is there a correct way to give advice? Or is it common to just throw around advice, and I'm just being uptight about it.
Thanks!
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irregularpanda
Apr 11, 2010, 9:34 PM
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nmak wrote: Hi, I've been climbing for a couple of months, but I'm trying to figure out when it's right to offer help or suggestions when climbing. I was climbing a difficult bouldering route the other day, and was pretty annoyed when someone told me how to do it when I couldn't get it. I like being able to figure out problems on my own, and I only really offer help to others if they ask for it, or if they're completely lost. Is there a correct way to give advice? Or is it common to just throw around advice, and I'm just being uptight about it. Thanks!
Unsolicited beta man is an asshole. Let him know, either by telling him to shut up politely, or just tell him to shut up.
PS, was it the red route? That one's sick bro.
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AntinJ
Apr 11, 2010, 9:41 PM
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Great question:
I know a lot of people enjoy the problem solving element of climbing. That being said; In my limited climbing experience I have learned that it's best not to offer advice ("Spray/Beta") to those currently working on a boulder problem or route.
If you are with brand new climbers or beginners who are trying out the sport or just want to “get to the top” by whatever means necessary, I would first ask them if they would like your suggestion before shouting out a climbing sequence or pointing out that obvious and overlooked hand/foot hold.
The only time I can think of that I was glad to get some beta thrown at me mid-route is when I am climbing at my limit on poor terrain (bad protection/alpine/ledge below), and the crucial info might just save me from a bad fall. That’s not spewing - that’s a sign of a great climbing partner.
For the most part it can be frustrating for someone below to watch a climber flail and struggle, however it would be selfish to just start yelling up at them and assume they don’t want to work out the moves for themselves.
Hope this helps!
J
(This post was edited by AntinJ on Apr 11, 2010, 9:43 PM)
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kiwiprincess
Apr 11, 2010, 10:18 PM
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You always come across people who tell you things Even when they know you are trying to Onsight!
I have found out a polite but firm "Please be quiet!" or "i'd like to figure it out myself thanks" does the trick! No ned to be an ass too.
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mhix13
Apr 11, 2010, 11:50 PM
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if you're attempting to give advice simply ask if the person would like some beta. better to wait until you watch them try the problem several times... don't run up to them after they fall off once. Don't be offended if they say thanks but no thanks.
If you're climbing and someone is spraying in your direction just tell them you like to figure it out on your own or that they are distracting you. If they don't listen after being polite it's open-season to be a dick/asshole to them.
In my experience most people listen if you let them know you don't want their help.
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currupt4130
Apr 12, 2010, 1:32 AM
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I've found that using one of these phrases works well for me:
"I'd appreciate if you didn't talk while I'm climbing."
"Don't fucking talk to me."
"Shut the fuck up."
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clc
Apr 12, 2010, 5:48 AM
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nmak wrote: I like being able to figure out problems on my own, and I only really offer help to others if they ask for it, or if they're completely lost. Thanks!
Well Nmak maybe you looked completely lost to the guy that offered advice?.
You've been climbing for a couple months so your beta is probably no good and don't get annoyed about some little V4 boulder problem. And if you were at a gym, I've just waste my time.
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patto
Apr 12, 2010, 6:20 AM
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Is it just me or are boulderers the biggest whingers? Who f'ing cares!
Personally I like somebody offering a suggesting if I'm really struggling to find the moves. If you don't then tell them. Don't stew on it and complain to a forum.
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 12, 2010, 1:04 PM
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patto wrote: Is it just me or are boulderers the biggest whingers? Who f'ing cares! Personally I like somebody offering a suggesting if I'm really struggling to find the moves. If you don't then tell them. Don't stew on it and complain to a forum.
Agreed! Some people are just trying to be helpful. If they give you unsolicited beta and you don't want it, then tell them. If they get offended at that, then they ARE an ass and you can let em have it.
Josh
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dingus
Apr 12, 2010, 1:21 PM
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I STILL can't do the move!
DMT
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 12, 2010, 1:24 PM
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dingus wrote: I STILL can't do the move! DMT
That's because you ignored my unsolicited beta, old man! 
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dingus
Apr 12, 2010, 1:27 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: dingus wrote: I STILL can't do the move! DMT That's because you ignored my unsolicited beta, old man!
No buddy, I didn't... that was the PINT!
DMT
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fancypants27
Apr 12, 2010, 3:13 PM
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I am new to climbing, and personally I really like when someone offers a suggestion when I I'm stuck. It gives me the opportunity to talk with more experienced climbers (get some tips) and ensures that I climb the route correctly. I don't boulder, but I would imagine I'd feel the same way if someone offered some advice.
But thats just me...
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rubber_man
Apr 12, 2010, 3:35 PM
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fancypants27 wrote: I am new to climbing, and personally I really like when someone offers a suggestion when I I'm stuck. It gives me the opportunity to talk with more experienced climbers (get some tips) and ensures that I climb the route correctly. I don't boulder, but I would imagine I'd feel the same way if someone offered some advice. But thats just me...
I'm not exactly convinced there's a single correct way to climb the route. There are obvious things that you should do, i.e. stick your finger in a bolt, but every person climbs the same route a little differently.
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dingus
Apr 12, 2010, 3:39 PM
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rubber_man wrote: There are obvious things that you should do, i.e. stick your finger in a bolt, but every person climbs the same route a little differently.
So THAT'S how they get the rope up there!
DMT
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fancypants27
Apr 12, 2010, 4:37 PM
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rubber_man wrote: I'm not exactly convinced there's a single correct way to climb the route. There are obvious things that you should do, i.e. stick your finger in a bolt, but every person climbs the same route a little differently.
Definitely agree with you. What I meant was more along the lines of something that happend to me the other night... where someone suggested heel hooking a hold. Being a beginner climber, I have never had to use this technique, nor would I have thought to use it. I would have just kept trying to muscle my way over.
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hafilax
Apr 12, 2010, 5:29 PM
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fancypants27 wrote: rubber_man wrote: I'm not exactly convinced there's a single correct way to climb the route. There are obvious things that you should do, i.e. stick your finger in a bolt, but every person climbs the same route a little differently. Definitely agree with you. What I meant was more along the lines of something that happend to me the other night... where someone suggested heel hooking a hold. Being a beginner climber, I have never had to use this technique, nor would I have thought to use it. I would have just kept trying to muscle my way over.
Problem solving and on-sights are my favourite aspects of climbing. I'm at the point where I (think I) know most of the basic movements but knowing where to apply what technique is a skill unto itself. I've seen people that can't get up a route without someone on the ground choreographing each move.
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cracklover
Apr 12, 2010, 6:08 PM
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hafilax wrote: fancypants27 wrote: rubber_man wrote: I'm not exactly convinced there's a single correct way to climb the route. There are obvious things that you should do, i.e. stick your finger in a bolt, but every person climbs the same route a little differently. Definitely agree with you. What I meant was more along the lines of something that happend to me the other night... where someone suggested heel hooking a hold. Being a beginner climber, I have never had to use this technique, nor would I have thought to use it. I would have just kept trying to muscle my way over. There's nothing wrong with asking for help or advice. It's getting unwanted advice that's the issue. Problem solving and on-sights are my favourite aspects of climbing. I'm at the point where I (think I) know most of the basic movements but knowing where to apply what technique is a skill unto itself.
Even when I was a beginning climber, I liked to figure it out for myself. Getting to the point where I had tried every option I could think of, and *only then* asking for help, meant my problem-solving skills got really good, and at the same time, I kept learned new techniques.
GO
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dingus
Apr 12, 2010, 6:19 PM
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No one would talk to me when I was younger, anyway.
DMT
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scotty1974
Apr 12, 2010, 6:24 PM
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So I guess the real questions is when did you cross the line from a new climber that ate up all the help that other climbers offered, to a cool "I know what I'm doing" climber that doesn't need advice anymore.
Just tell them, "hey, I'm at 2 months now" and they'll figure you know what your doing. That is until you switch to roped climbing and you need other people again..unless you intend to figure that out on your own too.
(This post was edited by scotty1974 on Apr 12, 2010, 6:25 PM)
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swoopee
Apr 12, 2010, 6:37 PM
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I don't mind being told to STFU or telling others to do the same.
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Adk
Apr 12, 2010, 8:33 PM
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Just be careful that you aren't rude "telling him..."
He might just tell you anyway cuz you were an ass! and then it's too late. You already have the beta.
Just be polite and say no thanks man, I want to struggle and work it out!
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DuckBeard
Apr 13, 2010, 1:05 AM
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It's probably just because I'm pretty new to climbing, but I don't mind when people give me advice on what to do. Then again, it's probably because they see me looking around like I'm lost on a v3, and they assume that I haven't been at it for very long and could use some advice.
Though I could definitely see how more experienced climbers could get pretty PO'd about people spurting off with unwanted beta. I mean, finding the correct holds to use and the right strategy can be half the fun.
(This post was edited by DuckBeard on Apr 13, 2010, 1:12 AM)
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JasonsDrivingForce
Apr 16, 2010, 1:58 PM
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I think that you should always wait for the other climber to ask before giving out verbal beta but what about actually doing the route and giving them visual beta?
I have had several situations where someone new to a problem will have several attempts at it and get stuck. These were all problems that I understood how to do the moves on. Is it bad Etiquette to climb the route and give the other climber visual beta before they figure it out for themselves or ask for help?
In each of those instances I just waited for the climber to get the move on their own or ask for Beta before I showed them. However, I wondered if that was really necessary?
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