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ml_nelson
Jun 20, 2010, 2:48 AM
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Registered: Apr 12, 2010
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I just started using Cinch & I'm findiing lowering a top-roped partener, or doing a rappel a bit ackward to do using Trango's recommendations.
Trango recomends that you pull the lever to fully release the Cinch & then lower just like an ATC, using drag on the brake-hand. The issue I have is that in the open condition, the Cinch has far less friction than an ATC. I can't easily make enough drag to brake well. Even if I use a redirect to an extra binner on a leg loop, it's still far less friction than an ATC.
What I end up doing is not fully opening the release lever & instead modulating the lower speed by adjusting the amount I open the Cinch. My concern is that I'm lowering by an method other than Trango's prescribe one.
Thoughts?
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jakedatc
Jun 20, 2010, 3:14 AM
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Unless my partner is very light i modulate using the lever along with changing the angle i hold the rope at to lower them at the speed i want.
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maldaly
Jun 20, 2010, 3:42 AM
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Registered: Oct 31, 2002
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ml_nelson,
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that we instruct to open it all the way then modulate like an ATC. We don't. Check out our instructional video here: http://www.trango.com/belay_rappel/Cinch. Click on the Instructions tab then watch the video. There are pretty clear directions how to modulate when lowering plus a great tip for rigging a leg-loop re-direct.
Mal
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currupt4130
Jun 20, 2010, 4:02 AM
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Registered: Feb 7, 2008
Posts: 515
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Listen to Mal, both I and my girlfriend have no problems lowering anyone on a Cinch.
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ml_nelson
Jun 20, 2010, 4:14 AM
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maldaly wrote: ml_nelson, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that we instruct to open it all the way then modulate like an ATC. We don't. Check out our instructional video here: http://www.trango.com/belay_rappel/Cinch. Click on the Instructions tab then watch the video. There are pretty clear directions how to modulate when lowering plus a great tip for rigging a leg-loop re-direct. Mal
I watched the video before & I had the impression you opened it all the way. I couldn't really tell from the video that you were modulating the lower by working the handle. I thought the modulation was to coming from the brake hand.
Then I read the written instructions to see if there was more on the topic where I interpreted... "Pull down handle as shown" as pulling it all the way.
In any case, thanks for the clarification. It's comforting to hear straight from the horses mouth.
Mike
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Khoi
Jun 20, 2010, 7:39 AM
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Registered: Apr 11, 2008
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maldaly wrote: ml_nelson, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that we instruct to open it all the way then modulate like an ATC. We don't. Check out our instructional video here: http://www.trango.com/belay_rappel/Cinch. Click on the Instructions tab then watch the video. There are pretty clear directions how to modulate when lowering plus a great tip for rigging a leg-loop re-direct. Mal
In that video you strongly recommend we NOT work the handle with the right hand and use our left hand as the brake hand when lowering. You say, "It's gonna be hard to lower the person. Guaranteed. You're gonna hate it!"
I have yet to have any trouble lowering that way. I do also lower the way you recommend, and I have yet to encounter a huge difference in the ease of one method compared to the other.
Along the same lines, I think you do your product a disservice by saying "it's a little counterintuitive with the Cinch. Sorry about that! But that's the way we designed it" when talking about lowering with a Cinch.
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ckirkwood9
Jun 20, 2010, 5:37 PM
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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i LOVE that Mal checks and responds to posts about his company.
Real Nice My Man!
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jbrown2
Jun 21, 2010, 3:55 AM
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Registered: Sep 4, 2005
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It is multi pitching season here at smith rock an i have one question/concern. In order to load and unload the cinch you have to compleatly detach it from the carabiner. It creates a few tenuous moments where there is a possibility of dropping the cinch. Is there or are you in the process of making a modification for a safety (read butterfinger) catch. The most worrying part is unloading where you are pulling the roap out of the device.
I understand that like all climbing the best prevention is to just be carefull.
I tried to put a very thin cord through the pivot hole but realised quickly that that was a terrible idea.
Thanks and looking forwad to any response.
Justin
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maldaly
Jun 21, 2010, 4:10 AM
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Registered: Oct 31, 2002
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Justin,
There are all kinds of things you shouldn't drop on a multi-pitch, you belay device being one of them. Some people do as you tried with a short accessory loop through the pivot hole. For some it works, for others it doesn't. I tried it and hated it. So I just don't drop the thing. I don't leash my nut tool either.
You have two line of defense here. First and foremost, don't drop your belay device. You second line of defense is to have a back-up plan. Can you belay without your belay device? Can you rappel without one? Learn to use a munter hitch. It sucks to belay a leader with one but it works fine for belaying a second.
I one dropped my rappel rig with 12 raps left to go. I figured out how to turn my #5 TriCam into a rappel rig that actually worked okay.
I don't know if that answer helps but it's all I got. Let me know if you come up with anything clever.
Mal
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jbrown2
Jun 21, 2010, 8:12 AM
Post #11 of 12
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Registered: Sep 4, 2005
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Thanks for getting back to me so fast. That was fater than my parents return my letters.
Just seemed like the cord thing jammed up the device.
Any way, yep the good ol' munter is always on stand bye. I guess you have to look on the bight side. you were lucky enough to have time to do a 12+ pitch climb.
Thanks again.
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coolcat83
Jun 21, 2010, 12:13 PM
Post #12 of 12
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Registered: Jan 27, 2007
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maldaly wrote: I one dropped my rappel rig with 12 raps left to go. I figured out how to turn my #5 TriCam into a rappel rig that actually worked okay.
i dont remember reading that in the instruction pamphlet.
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