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notapplicable
Dec 14, 2010, 1:45 PM
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j_ung wrote: This whole rope-over-shoulder thing is moot if you use a stick clip. It's sport climbing, after all.
Just don't clip the second bolt too, or I will still be laughing...
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spikeddem
Dec 14, 2010, 3:06 PM
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TradEddie wrote: jt512 wrote: Having the rope run between your legs shouldn't be a problem anyhow if your belayer is holding the rope close to the wall, as he should be until you get a couple of bolts clipped. Jay Suddenly it all becomes clear. Rope over the shoulder is to 'solve' a problem created by a sloppy, even dangerous belay. Now I understand why it's done, and hate it even more. See, I learned something today! Thanks. TE
True, if you're climbing in a gym with magnificent belay stances immediately underneath the climber.
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spikeddem
Dec 14, 2010, 3:07 PM
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billl7 wrote: vegastradguy wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: mattm wrote: This also bugs me. Almost as much as the lead rope over the shoulder... I haven't seen this one. They throw it over their shoulder while climbing? yeah, before they get to the first bolt. its something that some of my more experienced partners do for a reason i still cant quite fathom- they say so its easier to clip. im like- dude, the stick clip is right here. If the leader's shoulder is above the biner that the leader is clipping, a fall will come closer to the ground than if the rope had been brought up just enough to clip. Hail to His Geekness!
I have no idea what you're talking about. This makes no sense.
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spikeddem
Dec 14, 2010, 3:08 PM
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billl7 wrote: notapplicable wrote: billl7 wrote: notapplicable wrote: billl7 wrote: vegastradguy wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: mattm wrote: This also bugs me. Almost as much as the lead rope over the shoulder... I haven't seen this one. They throw it over their shoulder while climbing? yeah, before they get to the first bolt. its something that some of my more experienced partners do for a reason i still cant quite fathom- they say so its easier to clip. im like- dude, the stick clip is right here. If the leader's shoulder is above the biner that the leader is clipping, a fall will come closer to the ground than if the rope had been brought up just enough to clip. Hail to His Geekness! You need to find a new belayer. Belayer is of no consequence. Good belayer, bad belayer, gross-motor-skill challenged belayer ... the leader is still going to come closer to the ground. If two climbers were to clip from the same holds and the only difference was that one had the rope over the shoulder prior to clipping and the other brought slack up from below to clip and they both successfully complete the clip, I fail to see how one would fall farther than the other. The distance of the fall is not the metric to watch. It is the closeness to the ground. Again, we're assuming the clipped biner is below the shoulder and above the harness.
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spikeddem
Dec 14, 2010, 3:10 PM
Post #80 of 103
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Colinhoglund wrote: notapplicable wrote: Have you seen people do that? Because that is flippin retarded. If the rope is over your shoulder, it is also behind your shoulder, which is going to slam your face in to the wall if you should fall right away. Agreed the 'rope over shoulder' first clip is dumb. The way I've seen it done though they take the rope off shoulder then clip it into the draw. So no getting squished problem. It does accomplish keeping the rope out of your way for one clip (solution, just learn some rope management foot work). However this technique creates two problems. Firstly, since this tends to be a gumby trick anyways, more often then not they end up back-clipped since it's an unfamiliar action compared to normal clipping. And secondly, there tends to be a lot of extra slack in the system using this rather than a standard pull up and clip. Though a good belayer can solve this issue. No benefits and two extra ways to f&%k up. Who is teaching this stupid technique?????????
Wrong, just wrong. Seriously.
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spikeddem
Dec 14, 2010, 3:13 PM
Post #81 of 103
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notapplicable wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: notapplicable wrote: Have you seen people do that? Because that is flippin retarded. If the rope is over your shoulder, it is also behind your shoulder, which is going to slam your face in to the wall if you should fall right away. Agreed the 'rope over shoulder' first clip is dumb. The way I've seen it done though they take the rope off shoulder then clip it into the draw. So no getting squished problem. It does accomplish keeping the rope out of your way for one clip (solution, just learn some rope management foot work). However this technique creates two problems. Firstly, since this tends to be a gumby trick anyways, more often then not they end up back-clipped since it's an unfamiliar action compared to normal clipping. And secondly, there tends to be a lot of extra slack in the system using this rather than a standard pull up and clip. Though a good belayer can solve this issue. No benefits and two extra ways to f&%k up. Who is teaching this stupid technique????????? Well I don't think that is entirely fair. If done correctly it's possible that it could make the first clip quicker/easier in some cases, you just have to get the rope off your shoulder before clipping. I've never tried it but now I'm curious. Maybe I'll experiment with it next time I'm out and with any luck, someone will start a thread about some gumby they saw clipping with the rope over their shoulder out in WV. 
You will find yourself frustrated with the method if you do not put the rope on the shoulder of the arm that you'll be clipping with. If you clip with the left, and have it on the right shoulder, it can be annoying.
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billl7
Dec 14, 2010, 3:35 PM
Post #82 of 103
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spikeddem wrote: billl7 wrote: The distance of the fall is not the metric to watch. It is the closeness to the ground. Again, we're assuming the clipped biner is below the shoulder and above the harness. It looks like I'll be GU'd, but you're not getting it.
It was explained quite well earlier in this thread (edge's post on page 3).
Edit: removed incorrect link
(This post was edited by billl7 on Dec 14, 2010, 3:39 PM)
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vegastradguy
Dec 14, 2010, 3:46 PM
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notapplicable wrote: j_ung wrote: This whole rope-over-shoulder thing is moot if you use a stick clip. It's sport climbing, after all. Just don't clip the second bolt too, or I will still be laughing...
sometimes, if the routes are short enough and steep enough, i'll clip the chains and call it a send.
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chadnsc
Dec 14, 2010, 3:51 PM
Post #84 of 103
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billl7 wrote: spikeddem wrote: billl7 wrote: The distance of the fall is not the metric to watch. It is the closeness to the ground. Again, we're assuming the clipped biner is below the shoulder and above the harness. It looks like I'll be GU'd, but you're not getting it. It was explained quite well earlier in this thread (edge's post on page 3). Edit: removed incorrect link
If it was explained quite well earlier in this thread why are you still talking about it?
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spikeddem
Dec 14, 2010, 4:00 PM
Post #85 of 103
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chadnsc wrote: billl7 wrote: spikeddem wrote: billl7 wrote: The distance of the fall is not the metric to watch. It is the closeness to the ground. Again, we're assuming the clipped biner is below the shoulder and above the harness. It looks like I'll be GU'd, but you're not getting it. It was explained quite well earlier in this thread (edge's post on page 3). Edit: removed incorrect link If it was explained quite well earlier in this thread why are you still talking about it incorrectly?
Slight edit for ya Chad.
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chadnsc
Dec 14, 2010, 4:03 PM
Post #86 of 103
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spikeddem wrote: chadnsc wrote: billl7 wrote: spikeddem wrote: billl7 wrote: The distance of the fall is not the metric to watch. It is the closeness to the ground. Again, we're assuming the clipped biner is below the shoulder and above the harness. It looks like I'll be GU'd, but you're not getting it. It was explained quite well earlier in this thread (edge's post on page 3). Edit: removed incorrect link If it was explained quite well earlier in this thread why are you still talking about it incorrectly? Slight edit for ya Chad.
Well yeah but I wanted him to figure that out for himself. Thanks for ruining it spike. 
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stefanohatari
Dec 14, 2010, 6:43 PM
Post #87 of 103
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j_ung wrote: stefanohatari wrote: Seems like two questions. Why a PAS, and why between the legs. PAS question has been thoroughly aired. I started clipping slings this way because my mentor Scott Backes did it this way. Never thought it was a problem before. Now I have to worry about the fashion police and gumby patrol. Jeez. I'm neither of those! I just think people look funny with a crotchful of Dyneema. Am I wrong?
I don't know. . . everytime I see a climber who doesn't have a crotchful of Dyneema, it just seems, like, weird. . .
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ClimbSoHigh
Dec 14, 2010, 7:37 PM
Post #88 of 103
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In reply to: The better method, as others have hinted, is just to leave all that crap at home. It's sport climbing; all you need are quick draws.
I would hope your not implying to leave my belay device at home, or belay off a munter on a draw... I am one of the idiots that tries to always rap off sport climbs, and not lower off to preserve the anchors. I also climb some places without sport anchors/quick clips, so I usually have to untie to rethred the rings to rap, and I personally do not feel comfortable going indirect with only 2 draws as they are not lockers. I know, I just like to keep my margin of safety as high as possible, so I guess two mini lockers and 2 slings is a small price/weight to pay to keep me happy. I also like to rock the banana hammok, so having those slings up my crack makes me feel at home. But if you find it funny, I am glad to entertain fellow climbers. Now I have to find the beer bong pelican who is stealing my thunder.
The rope over the shoulder thing does seem silly, next time I see someone do it, I'm gonna ask why, figure it is the best way to find out why, but speculating is more fun.
Peace!
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gothcopter
Dec 14, 2010, 8:24 PM
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spikeddem wrote: notapplicable wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: notapplicable wrote: Have you seen people do that? Because that is flippin retarded. If the rope is over your shoulder, it is also behind your shoulder, which is going to slam your face in to the wall if you should fall right away. Agreed the 'rope over shoulder' first clip is dumb. The way I've seen it done though they take the rope off shoulder then clip it into the draw. So no getting squished problem. It does accomplish keeping the rope out of your way for one clip (solution, just learn some rope management foot work). However this technique creates two problems. Firstly, since this tends to be a gumby trick anyways, more often then not they end up back-clipped since it's an unfamiliar action compared to normal clipping. And secondly, there tends to be a lot of extra slack in the system using this rather than a standard pull up and clip. Though a good belayer can solve this issue. No benefits and two extra ways to f&%k up. Who is teaching this stupid technique????????? Well I don't think that is entirely fair. If done correctly it's possible that it could make the first clip quicker/easier in some cases, you just have to get the rope off your shoulder before clipping. I've never tried it but now I'm curious. Maybe I'll experiment with it next time I'm out and with any luck, someone will start a thread about some gumby they saw clipping with the rope over their shoulder out in WV. You will find yourself frustrated with the method if you do not put the rope on the shoulder of the arm that you'll be clipping with. If you clip with the left, and have it on the right shoulder, it can be annoying.
In my experience, the primary use for the rope-over-the-shoulder thing is when a climb starts with a roof. In that case, you usually want your belayer "behind" you as you climb out to the first clip, so he can spot you properly. If you have the rope between your legs, or even to the side, it can often end up on the "wrong" side with all the twisting and turning that is sometimes necessary in roof climbing. Throwing the rope over your shoulder tends to keep it out of the mix, and once the first clip is in reach it's right there.
Maybe people see this technique and imitate it in situations where it isn't so prudent?
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spikeddem
Dec 14, 2010, 9:01 PM
Post #90 of 103
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gothcopter wrote: spikeddem wrote: notapplicable wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: notapplicable wrote: Have you seen people do that? Because that is flippin retarded. If the rope is over your shoulder, it is also behind your shoulder, which is going to slam your face in to the wall if you should fall right away. Agreed the 'rope over shoulder' first clip is dumb. The way I've seen it done though they take the rope off shoulder then clip it into the draw. So no getting squished problem. It does accomplish keeping the rope out of your way for one clip (solution, just learn some rope management foot work). However this technique creates two problems. Firstly, since this tends to be a gumby trick anyways, more often then not they end up back-clipped since it's an unfamiliar action compared to normal clipping. And secondly, there tends to be a lot of extra slack in the system using this rather than a standard pull up and clip. Though a good belayer can solve this issue. No benefits and two extra ways to f&%k up. Who is teaching this stupid technique????????? Well I don't think that is entirely fair. If done correctly it's possible that it could make the first clip quicker/easier in some cases, you just have to get the rope off your shoulder before clipping. I've never tried it but now I'm curious. Maybe I'll experiment with it next time I'm out and with any luck, someone will start a thread about some gumby they saw clipping with the rope over their shoulder out in WV. You will find yourself frustrated with the method if you do not put the rope on the shoulder of the arm that you'll be clipping with. If you clip with the left, and have it on the right shoulder, it can be annoying. In my experience, the primary use for the rope-over-the-shoulder thing is when a climb starts with a roof. In that case, you usually want your belayer "behind" you as you climb out to the first clip, so he can spot you properly. If you have the rope between your legs, or even to the side, it can often end up on the "wrong" side with all the twisting and turning that is sometimes necessary in roof climbing. Throwing the rope over your shoulder tends to keep it out of the mix, and once the first clip is in reach it's right there. Maybe people see this technique and imitate it in situations where it isn't so prudent?
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drector
Dec 14, 2010, 9:21 PM
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Back to the PAS between the legs, doesn't it seem like a bad idea to unclip a carabiner from the harness then just drop it? One of these PAS guys is going to unclip the wrong biner and drop it on someones head. Then there's the fumbling to grap the PAS and find the end of it. Sounds like a lot of work.
Dave
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billl7
Dec 14, 2010, 10:36 PM
Post #92 of 103
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drector wrote: Back to the PAS between the legs, doesn't it seem like a bad idea to unclip a carabiner from the harness then just drop it? One of these PAS guys is going to unclip the wrong biner and drop it on someones head. Then there's the fumbling to grap the PAS and find the end of it. Sounds like a lot of work.
Yes - need to be careful in sellecting what to unclip and drop.
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healyje
Dec 14, 2010, 10:47 PM
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I don't think it's a matter of utility or fashion so much as one of self-respect. It's ridiculous looking at best and functionally silly to watch someone deploy it.
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stefanohatari
Dec 14, 2010, 11:48 PM
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healyje wrote: I don't think it's a matter of utility or fashion so much as one of self-respect. It's ridiculous looking at best and functionally silly to watch someone deploy it.
That's what SHE said.
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LostinMaine
Dec 17, 2010, 1:21 AM
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stefanohatari wrote: healyje wrote: I don't think it's a matter of utility or fashion so much as one of self-respect. It's ridiculous looking at best and functionally silly to watch someone deploy it. That's what SHE said.
We heard very different things.
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stefanohatari
Dec 17, 2010, 5:38 AM
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LostinMaine wrote: stefanohatari wrote: healyje wrote: I don't think it's a matter of utility or fashion so much as one of self-respect. It's ridiculous looking at best and functionally silly to watch someone deploy it. That's what SHE said. We heard very different things.
That's fine. You were closer.
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curt
Dec 17, 2010, 6:09 AM
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bearbreeder wrote: sp115 wrote: And this is how we ended up at one point with men wearing Lycra and Spandex as climbing gear. and some of those men climbed harder than you ever will 
You all knew this was coming...
...it was only a matter of time. 
Curt
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notapplicable
Dec 17, 2010, 7:16 AM
Post #98 of 103
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curt wrote: bearbreeder wrote: sp115 wrote: And this is how we ended up at one point with men wearing Lycra and Spandex as climbing gear. and some of those men climbed harder than you ever will You all knew this was coming... ...it was only a matter of time. Curt
Lycra? pfft!
This is how real men get it done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTf2P4iBTto
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bill413
Dec 17, 2010, 1:49 PM
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notapplicable wrote: curt wrote: bearbreeder wrote: sp115 wrote: And this is how we ended up at one point with men wearing Lycra and Spandex as climbing gear. and some of those men climbed harder than you ever will You all knew this was coming... [img]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/1/193151-largest_29286.jpg[/img] ...it was only a matter of time. Curt Lycra? pfft! This is how real men get it done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTf2P4iBTto
I hate sunburns.
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sp115
Dec 17, 2010, 1:59 PM
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bill413 wrote: notapplicable wrote: curt wrote: bearbreeder wrote: sp115 wrote: And this is how we ended up at one point with men wearing Lycra and Spandex as climbing gear. and some of those men climbed harder than you ever will You all knew this was coming... [img]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/1/193151-largest_29286.jpg[/img] ...it was only a matter of time. Curt Lycra? pfft! This is how real men get it done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTf2P4iBTtoI hate sunburns on my ass.
(fixed)
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