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spikeddem
Dec 22, 2010, 4:08 PM
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michael1245 wrote: is it possible to use one rope on two trees? for example, you tie an achor to one tree and have like 50 feet of rope remaining, could you tie another anchor to a nearby tree with the same rope? explain, please?
Yes.
What part would you like to have explained though?
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michael1245
Dec 22, 2010, 4:21 PM
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spikeddem wrote: michael1245 wrote: is it possible to use one rope on two trees? for example, you tie an achor to one tree and have like 50 feet of rope remaining, could you tie another anchor to a nearby tree with the same rope? explain, please? Yes. What part would you like to have explained though?
more or less have a scenario described. I kind of see it in my head. In fact, the idea came to me last night and I decided to post it this morning to get a look at the feedback. A yes or no reply was definitely what I was looking for. If someone can tell me how they would do it (physical circumstances of the trees, edge, etc. their choice), cool.
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spikeddem
Dec 22, 2010, 4:40 PM
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michael1245 wrote: spikeddem wrote: michael1245 wrote: is it possible to use one rope on two trees? for example, you tie an achor to one tree and have like 50 feet of rope remaining, could you tie another anchor to a nearby tree with the same rope? explain, please? Yes. What part would you like to have explained though? more or less have a scenario described. I kind of see it in my head. In fact, the idea came to me last night and I decided to post it this morning to get a look at the feedback. A yes or no reply was definitely what I was looking for. If someone can tell me how they would do it (physical circumstances of the trees, edge, etc. their choice), cool.
Just get this book. It'll answer way more questions than we could here on RC.com
The issue with asking us is that there are so many variables involved that there are almost always exceptions to advice we could give. A book should give you a much more complete idea than asking questions on RC.com one by one.
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boymeetsrock
Dec 22, 2010, 4:50 PM
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michael1245 wrote: Allamuchy, NJ is strictly NO BOLTS. There's a great practice wall and my first time there, my instructor had anchored us to two trees. I want to say they were about 30 feet from the edge. From what I remember, he had used a "rope". Not sure if it was cordage, static, or dynamic. Ralph Stover, PA has bolts in place. However, if I wanted to tie into a tree...I'm guessing that I have 10-20 feet before the edge, depending. Those are my locals.
Do you know which wall you were on at Allamuchy? I have set gear anchors when I was there, but I've only climbed at the main wall.
Your questions in this thread are extremely basic. If this is stuff you need to ask about, I think you need to be climbing with someone much more qualified. I'd suggest you do some reading (How to Rockclimb, FTOTH, Knots for Climbers; stuff like that) to answer these questions and familiarize yourself with the basics, before you go out and set up TR's.
I'd also urge caution about a few of the trees at Allamuchy, at least on the main wall. Make sure the trees you are using aren't dead or less that @ 10" diameter (10" is just my opinion, but it is a fairly safe number).
Not trying to be a jerk, just a little concerned by the nature of your questions. Good luck, be safe and have fun!
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rocknice2
Dec 22, 2010, 4:51 PM
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Your going to give yourself an aneurysm before you ever get to top rope. It's OK though most everyone goes through this at first.
Hopefully you've read a book on anchors!!!
It's impossible to plan out the anchor your going to use because when you get to the cliff the trees are in all the wrong places.
So a standard anchor setup is :
- Identify or place the appropriate number of anchor points [minimum 3 pro, 2 bolts or 1 BF tree]
- Attach your static rope / webbing / cord to each anchor point using any number of knots or slings etc...
-Join all rope between the pro at a master point over edge of cliff for the TR rope.
The variations are endless so there is really no point in focusing on a specific scenario unless it's 2 bolts side by side which is very common.
Read a book on anchors and practice at home.
Pick 3 things at random [fridge table chair] and make an anchor
What you need to know is how to make knots and equalize all the legs to the master point. The rest is just experience.
My first anchor took over an hour to build. I'm down to 50 minutes now. 
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michael1245
Dec 22, 2010, 5:03 PM
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just ordered this one...
Rock Climbing Anchors: A Comprehensive Guide (The Mountaineers Outdoor Experts Series)
Craig Luebben
I've already read through John Long's How To Rock Climb.
I'm a beginner! I am learning. And, I found Rockclimbing.com Forums, so I could come around with LOTS of questions and ask for detailed explanations on subjects that I needed clarified. There's no Rock Climbing Bar over on Main Street, otherwise I'd walk in, order a beer, and ask the same questions there.
I have no intentions of climbing on my own for a while. I'm in the gym until winter breaks, come Spring I'll be outside with guides...getting instructions and asking questions.
Anyway, thanks for the replies. No offense taken at all I'll look through them, and maybe post some follow-up questions.
(This post was edited by michael1245 on Dec 22, 2010, 5:08 PM)
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brokesomeribs
Dec 22, 2010, 5:08 PM
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I'm in NJ too. Bring a 6-pack of a good microbrew and I'll head out to Allamuchy with you for the day and answer all the questions you've got!
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michael1245
Dec 22, 2010, 5:09 PM
Post #33 of 53
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brokesomeribs wrote: I'm in NJ too. Bring a 6-pack of a good microbrew and I'll head out to Allamuchy with you for the day and answer all the questions you've got!
Awesome
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majid_sabet
Dec 22, 2010, 5:47 PM
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michael1245 wrote: just ordered this one... Rock Climbing Anchors: A Comprehensive Guide (The Mountaineers Outdoor Experts Series) Craig Luebben I've already read through John Long's How To Rock Climb. I'm a beginner! I am learning. And, I found Rockclimbing.com Forums, so I could come around with LOTS of questions and ask for detailed explanations on subjects that I needed clarified. There's no Rock Climbing Bar over on Main Street, otherwise I'd walk in, order a beer, and ask the same questions there. I have no intentions of climbing on my own for a while. I'm in the gym until winter breaks, come Spring I'll be outside with guides...getting instructions and asking questions. Anyway, thanks for the replies. No offense taken at all I'll look through them, and maybe post some follow-up questions.
anchor building with natural component is an art. you could mix and match many different variation to build your anchor. for most TR anchors, a mid size tree is sufficient or even a 500 lbs rock. building anchor becomes complex when you start getting in to building highline, slacklining or anchors for rope rescue work. that is where you start working on your PHD.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Dec 22, 2010, 5:48 PM)
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sp115
Dec 22, 2010, 6:05 PM
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michael1245 wrote: brokesomeribs wrote: I'm in NJ too. Bring a 6-pack of a good microbrew and I'll head out to Allamuchy with you for the day and answer all the questions you've got! Awesome
Make him drink the beer after the anchor lesson...
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sp115
Dec 22, 2010, 6:10 PM
Post #36 of 53
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michael1245 wrote: is it possible to use one rope on two trees? for example, you tie an achor to one tree and have like 50 feet of rope remaining, could you tie another anchor to a nearby tree with the same rope? explain, please?
Yes, It depends, if there was enough rope - think of the letter "W". The top "points" of the "W" go to the three trees, the bottom "points" go the edge of the cliff. Notice the redundency of the points going to the cliff. Much better explained in one of the anchor books mentioned above.*
* just sayin'
(This post was edited by sp115 on Dec 22, 2010, 6:19 PM)
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bill413
Dec 22, 2010, 6:55 PM
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michael1245 wrote: is it possible to use one rope on two trees? for example, you tie an achor to one tree and have like 50 feet of rope remaining, could you tie another anchor to a nearby tree with the same rope? explain, please?
Yes. But, put a loop knot (like a figure 8 tied with a bight, or a BHK) at the master point. Don't just clip the biner over a long, single strand that runs from tree to tree.
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dbogardus
Dec 22, 2010, 7:08 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: [image]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ejAk42p7jdY/TO2j3WmPJJI/AAAAAAAAFWg/dMOIwIU8l-A/s320/Tree+Wrap.JPG[/image] http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/2010/12/natural-anchors.html
I would be mildy concerned about this set-up as well as any other form of girth hitching.
I understand the method and that it works fine, but as long as you have the gear for it, why wouldn't you choose a redundant set-up like a loop of cord wrapped once with an eight on a bight? Then extend as necessary.
Also, why does the picture not show up in my quote? I'm a forum noob.
o_0
(This post was edited by dbogardus on Dec 22, 2010, 7:09 PM)
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kachoong
Dec 22, 2010, 7:18 PM
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dbogardus wrote: bearbreeder wrote:  http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/2010/12/natural-anchors.html I would be mildy concerned about this set-up as well as any other form of girth hitching. I understand the method and that it works fine, but as long as you have the gear for it, why wouldn't you choose a redundant set-up like a loop of cord wrapped once with an eight on a bight? Then extend as necessary. Also, why does the picture not show up in my quote? I'm a forum noob. o_0
What do you mean, a "loop of cord wrapped once with an eight on a bight?"
Take out the "." in the image tags... sucks to have to do but works.
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spikeddem
Dec 22, 2010, 7:36 PM
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kachoong wrote: dbogardus wrote: bearbreeder wrote: [image]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ejAk42p7jdY/TO2j3WmPJJI/AAAAAAAAFWg/dMOIwIU8l-A/s320/Tree+Wrap.JPG[/image] http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/2010/12/natural-anchors.html I would be mildy concerned about this set-up as well as any other form of girth hitching. I understand the method and that it works fine, but as long as you have the gear for it, why wouldn't you choose a redundant set-up like a loop of cord wrapped once with an eight on a bight? Then extend as necessary. Also, why does the picture not show up in my quote? I'm a forum noob. o_0 What do you mean, a "loop of cord wrapped once with an eight on a bight?" Take out the "." in the image tags... sucks to have to do but works.
I believe this is what he's talking about:
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dbogardus
Dec 22, 2010, 8:34 PM
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spikeddem wrote: kachoong wrote: dbogardus wrote: bearbreeder wrote: [image]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ejAk42p7jdY/TO2j3WmPJJI/AAAAAAAAFWg/dMOIwIU8l-A/s320/Tree+Wrap.JPG[/image] http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/2010/12/natural-anchors.html I would be mildy concerned about this set-up as well as any other form of girth hitching. I understand the method and that it works fine, but as long as you have the gear for it, why wouldn't you choose a redundant set-up like a loop of cord wrapped once with an eight on a bight? Then extend as necessary. Also, why does the picture not show up in my quote? I'm a forum noob. o_0 What do you mean, a "loop of cord wrapped once with an eight on a bight?" Take out the "." in the image tags... sucks to have to do but works. I believe this is what he's talking about:
^^ This
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majid_sabet
Dec 22, 2010, 10:17 PM
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spikeddem wrote: kachoong wrote: dbogardus wrote: bearbreeder wrote: [image]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ejAk42p7jdY/TO2j3WmPJJI/AAAAAAAAFWg/dMOIwIU8l-A/s320/Tree+Wrap.JPG[/image] http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/2010/12/natural-anchors.html I would be mildy concerned about this set-up as well as any other form of girth hitching. if this was anchor course, you would get C on this I understand the method and that it works fine, but as long as you have the gear for it, why wouldn't you choose a redundant set-up like a loop of cord wrapped once with an eight on a bight? Then extend as necessary. Also, why does the picture not show up in my quote? I'm a forum noob. o_0 What do you mean, a "loop of cord wrapped once with an eight on a bight?" Take out the "." in the image tags... sucks to have to do but works. I believe this is what he's talking about: [image]http://i.ehow.com/images/a02/5f/l8/tie-ground-anchor-belaying-1.1-120X120.jpg[/image] |
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bearbreeder
Dec 22, 2010, 11:39 PM
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dbogardus wrote: I would be mildy concerned about this set-up as well as any other form of girth hitching. I understand the method and that it works fine, but as long as you have the gear for it, why wouldn't you choose a redundant set-up like a loop of cord wrapped once with an eight on a bight? Then extend as necessary. Also, why does the picture not show up in my quote? I'm a forum noob. o_0
its not a girth hitch ... the biner should see no tension ... in theory you dont need the biner with enough wraps
the friction of the rope holds it ... its theoretically stronger than a fig 8 as there are no loaded knots in the system ... in reality youd prob have a loaded knot somewhere though
the main reason to use it IMO is speed ... take a rabbit/snake cord, wrap the tree or boulder 3-4 times and clip ... no knots to tie/untie
or if youre at the top of a pitch where theres a suitable tree ... walk around that tree 3-4 times with the rope, sit down, pull up the rope and belay ...
(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Dec 23, 2010, 12:08 AM)
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dr_feelgood
Dec 23, 2010, 4:19 AM
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tie shit to tree.
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majid_sabet
Dec 23, 2010, 5:26 AM
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This anchor sucks Girl, you just failed your final anchor exam by following recommendation in RC .
come back next summer and retake your course again
go go
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Dec 23, 2010, 6:11 AM)
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climbingaggie03
Dec 23, 2010, 6:02 AM
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If I'm going to anchor off of two trees, or 2 bomb proof points that are far back from the edge, my preferred method is as follows.
I use static rope, I tie one end of the rope to one tree using a bowline w/ a yos finish. From that tree, I take the rope down to the cliff edge, and tie a fig 8 on a bight where I want my power point to be. then I keep going down the rope another 4 feet or so and tie another fig 8 on a bight. then I take the rope down from the second fig 8 and walk to my other tree. For the second tree, I like to use a sling around the tree (girth hitched or just slung, depends on my sling length and the trees' girth) and then clove hitch the rope to a biner on the sling. Then you have basically 2 independent and equalized legs on your anchor.
This doesn't use the least amount of gear, but I think it's easiest and quickest to set up, and it gives you alot of ways to adjust, you can move the fig 8's or you can adjust the clove hitch.
you can also substitute a BHK, double fig 8, or bowline on a bight for the two fig 8 on a bights and still have a fair amount of redundancy in your system.
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lofstromc
Dec 23, 2010, 12:04 PM
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http://www.rockandice.com/articles/how-to-climb/article/72-toprope-climbing-toproping-toprope-technique-toprope-safety
This is the method I use, except Ive added a step. After I tie the two fgure eights I hook up my rope and toss it. I believe that having the weight of the rope helps you build that second anchor quickly and get your clove hitch in the perfect spot.
Good luck. Make sure you have some one watch you set up your toprope before you use it.
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j_ung
Dec 23, 2010, 1:09 PM
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dbogardus wrote: bearbreeder wrote: http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/2010/12/natural-anchors.html I would be mildy concerned about this set-up as well as any other form of girth hitching. I understand the method and that it works fine, but as long as you have the gear for it, why wouldn't you choose a redundant set-up like a loop of cord wrapped once with an eight on a bight? Then extend as necessary. Also, why does the picture not show up in my quote? I'm a forum noob. o_0
I don't think anybody is saying to use only that. It's being shown here as an example of a single anchor point. I'd happily choose your suggestion, though, if the tree is BF and in the right spot for the climb.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Dec 23, 2010, 2:12 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: This anchor sucks Girl, you just failed your final anchor exam by following recommendation in RC . come back next summer and retake your course again go go
Wrap twice pull twice, not as nice.
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acorneau
Dec 23, 2010, 2:24 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Wrap twice pull twice, not as nice.
Looks like a common basket hitch to me.
(For those that don't know: a basket hitch basically doubles the strength of the loop.)
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