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bill413
Jun 12, 2009, 5:11 AM
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angry wrote: skolewarrior wrote: I use hexes when I feel appropriate (when i want something a little more secure than a nut but also when I dont think a cam will hold. I'm having a hard time trying to decide what that even means.
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AntinJ
Jun 13, 2009, 11:23 AM
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haha
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desertwanderer81
Jun 13, 2009, 6:35 PM
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[quote "jt512"][quote]So what your saying JT is that i shouldn't start leading until i am perfect at placing all gear?[/quote]
No, but perhaps you shouldn't post until you learn how to read. What I wrote was: "Someone who can't yet place a hex, isn't ready to lead anything but dead easy routes...."
-Jay[/quote]
Right, becaues a Hex is the end all and be all of climbing :p Many places don't even take Hexes well :p
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desertwanderer81
Jun 13, 2009, 6:37 PM
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angry wrote: skolewarrior wrote: I use hexes when I feel appropriate (when i want something a little more secure than a nut but also when I dont think a cam will hold. I'm having a hard time trying to decide what that even means.
I'm having trouble thinking of a situation where a nut isn't bomber that a cam wouldn't work well in.
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jt512
Jun 13, 2009, 7:14 PM
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desertwanderer81 wrote: [quote "jt512"][quote]So what your saying JT is that i shouldn't start leading until i am perfect at placing all gear?[/quote] No, but perhaps you shouldn't post until you learn how to read. What I wrote was: "Someone who can't yet place a hex, isn't ready to lead anything but dead easy routes...." -Jay[/quote] Right, becaues a Hex is the end all and be all of climbing :p Many places don't even take Hexes well :p
If you think you might be capable of understanding context, then go back and reread the thread from start. The guy I was responding to was planning on doing clean aid (maybe on toprope) to learn how to place hexes, about the stupidest idea I've heard in a long time, and that was four years ago.
Jay
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desertwanderer81
Jun 13, 2009, 8:02 PM
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jt512 wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: [quote "jt512"][quote]So what your saying JT is that i shouldn't start leading until i am perfect at placing all gear?[/quote] No, but perhaps you shouldn't post until you learn how to read. What I wrote was: "Someone who can't yet place a hex, isn't ready to lead anything but dead easy routes...." -Jay[/quote] Right, becaues a Hex is the end all and be all of climbing :p Many places don't even take Hexes well :p If you think you might be capable of understanding context, then go back and reread the thread from start. The guy I was responding to was planning on doing clean aid (maybe on toprope) to learn how to place hexes, about the stupidest idea I've heard in a long time, and that was four years ago. Jay
Relax Mr. 5.12, I'm just giving you a hard time. Probably should have put a ";)" in there.
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jt512
Jun 13, 2009, 8:04 PM
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desertwanderer81 wrote: jt512 wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: [quote "jt512"][quote]So what your saying JT is that i shouldn't start leading until i am perfect at placing all gear?[/quote] No, but perhaps you shouldn't post until you learn how to read. What I wrote was: "Someone who can't yet place a hex, isn't ready to lead anything but dead easy routes...." -Jay[/quote] Right, becaues a Hex is the end all and be all of climbing :p Many places don't even take Hexes well :p If you think you might be capable of understanding context, then go back and reread the thread from start. The guy I was responding to was planning on doing clean aid (maybe on toprope) to learn how to place hexes, about the stupidest idea I've heard in a long time, and that was four years ago. Jay Relax Mr. 5.12, I'm just giving you a hard time. Probably should have put a ";)" in there.
OK. Sorry about that.
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bill413
Jun 13, 2009, 11:04 PM
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desertwanderer81 wrote: I'm having trouble thinking of a situation where a nut isn't bomber that a cam wouldn't work well in.
Well, if i read this as "a place where a nut is bomber, a cam would be also" then it's patently wrong.
If it means "a place where a nut won't work is a place where a cam would not also" then again, it's wrong.
If it means "a place where a nut won't work a cam will" then it is sometimes true, but frequently wrong as well.
I'm sure that examples could be provided if you need them to help your troubled thoughts.
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desertwanderer81
Jun 14, 2009, 1:19 AM
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bill413 wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: I'm having trouble thinking of a situation where a nut isn't bomber that a cam wouldn't work well in. Well, if i read this as "a place where a nut is bomber, a cam would be also" then it's patently wrong. If it means "a place where a nut won't work is a place where a cam would not also" then again, it's wrong. If it means "a place where a nut won't work a cam will" then it is sometimes true, but frequently wrong as well. I'm sure that examples could be provided if you need them to help your troubled thoughts.
Sorry, you read that patently wrong then on the first account.
On the second account, I should have added that I can't think of any places where a nut fits where a hex works better than either a cam or a nut.
IE, as long as the placement isn't too big, either a nut or cam will work better than a hex.
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joeforte
Jun 14, 2009, 1:57 AM
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[quote "jt512"]They're less versatile than cams and much harder to place.
-Jay[/quote]
Can you explain how they are less versatile? I think they are much more versatile, but I'll let you state your argument first. [;)]
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ninth10
Jun 25, 2009, 11:34 PM
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I believe he was wanting to know about placing hexes securely, not the personal belief on the usefulness of them. Try placing a nut, cam or even rock above or behind the hex to keep it seated. This doesn't need to be weight bearing, (hence the benefit of doing it where another piece or gear would be a poor placement). You can even clip the hex into the other piece, or rock ,to prevent it from moving out of its placement.
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bill413
Jun 25, 2009, 11:56 PM
Post #39 of 54
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ninth10 wrote: I believe he was wanting to know about placing hexes securely, not the personal belief on the usefulness of them. Try placing a nut, cam or even rock above or behind the hex to keep it seated. This doesn't need to be weight bearing, (hence the benefit of doing it where another piece or gear would be a poor placement). You can even clip the hex into the other piece, or rock ,to prevent it from moving out of its placement.
I've occasionally needed to place a piece in opposition to a hex (or to a nut...) to make the placement secure. I don't think I've ever had a placement where I had to prop the hex in place. Well, at least none that I accepted.
Most of the time when I placed hexes, they were fine in and of themselves. As soon as I start having to monkey around with multiple pieces for a placement I reevaluate the whole thing. Sometimes it means going to different gear, sometimes it means setting oppositional nuts...etc.
But, they do have utility. Most pieces of pro on the market do. It's a personal decision as to whether any given piece or style of pro is useful enough in your climbing situation(s) to lug up with you.
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joeforte
Jun 26, 2009, 4:24 AM
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bill413 wrote: ninth10 wrote: I believe he was wanting to know about placing hexes securely, not the personal belief on the usefulness of them. Try placing a nut, cam or even rock above or behind the hex to keep it seated. This doesn't need to be weight bearing, (hence the benefit of doing it where another piece or gear would be a poor placement). You can even clip the hex into the other piece, or rock ,to prevent it from moving out of its placement. So you're advocating putting a cam behind a hex to keep it in place? This seems to defeat the utility of the hex.
Imagine a wide upward flairing crack that won't allow a hex to "set". A cam would be worthless, since it would just walk out and umbrella. If you can get the hex to stay in place, it's bomber, so you get creative. I've been in this scenerio quite a few times. This is where hexes really show their utility. Sometimes a large, lightweight, solid object is all you need to save your bacon!
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RudyB
Apr 14, 2011, 5:34 AM
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I'm "philisophically (sic) opposed" to self-righteous climbers who have philosophical oppositions to other people learning in ways which suit them best. Unless someone is damaging the rock, or doing something blatantly unsafe—and climbing TR is neither of these things—then what business is it of yours how they choose to improve their climbing skills? I learned trad by mock-leading on TR. It allowed me to practice my skills safely until I was ready to brave the sharp end with a sufficient amount of practice under my belt. Why would that offend you? Really, get off your high horse and mind your own business.
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adam14113
Apr 14, 2011, 5:50 AM
Post #42 of 54
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joeforte wrote: bill413 wrote: ninth10 wrote: I believe he was wanting to know about placing hexes securely, not the personal belief on the usefulness of them. Try placing a nut, cam or even rock above or behind the hex to keep it seated. This doesn't need to be weight bearing, (hence the benefit of doing it where another piece or gear would be a poor placement). You can even clip the hex into the other piece, or rock ,to prevent it from moving out of its placement. So you're advocating putting a cam behind a hex to keep it in place? This seems to defeat the utility of the hex. Imagine a wide upward flairing crack that won't allow a hex to "set". A cam would be worthless, since it would just walk out and umbrella. If you can get the hex to stay in place, it's bomber, so you get creative. I've been in this scenerio quite a few times. This is where hexes really show their utility. Sometimes a large, lightweight, solid object is all you need to save your bacon!
And the BACON must be saved at all costs.
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guangzhou
Apr 14, 2011, 6:56 AM
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I second the idea of top rope aid to practice placing gear. Keep in mind, you can aid just about any crack, so the route doesn't need to be an aid line.
Do your best to avoid crowding out a busy line if you can.
I don't use hexes as much I use too, but I have found them very useful when developing routes on limestone tower. Some of the "cracks" make perfect hex placement and won't hold a cam.
Hex are also nice when you have to protect a flake that is expending. Cam's by nature have more torch than hexes and could pry the expending flake lose. (I remember when the first pitch disappeared of a famous El-Cap route because the whole flake collapsed.
JAY512, how much trad climbing do you do? Curious
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 14, 2011, 12:26 PM
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Why on earth would this thread be resurrected twice? Just to bash Jay? Doesn't he have enough current posts or are we now resorting to getting in our time machines and starting flame wars from the past. In that case I am going to go forward and troll you all starting in the year 2021. None of you will even see it coming. 
Josh
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enigma
Apr 14, 2011, 10:38 PM
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desertwanderer81 wrote: [quote "jt512"][quote]So what your saying JT is that i shouldn't start leading until i am perfect at placing all gear?[/quote] No, but perhaps you shouldn't post until you learn how to read. What I wrote was: "Someone who can't yet place a hex, isn't ready to lead anything but dead easy routes...." -Jay[/quote] Right, becaues a Hex is the end all and be all of climbing :p Many places don't even take Hexes well :p
stupid, stupid, stupid.
people use hexes because they are cheap and obsolete
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carabiner96
Apr 14, 2011, 11:32 PM
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enigma wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: [quote "jt512"][quote]So what your saying JT is that i shouldn't start leading until i am perfect at placing all gear?[/quote] No, but perhaps you shouldn't post until you learn how to read. What I wrote was: "Someone who can't yet place a hex, isn't ready to lead anything but dead easy routes...." -Jay[/quote] Right, becaues a Hex is the end all and be all of climbing :p Many places don't even take Hexes well :p stupid, stupid, stupid. people use hexes because they are cheap and obsolete
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guangzhou
Apr 15, 2011, 12:08 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Why on earth would this thread be resurrected twice? Just to bash Jay? Doesn't he have enough current posts or are we now resorting to getting in our time machines and starting flame wars from the past. In that case I am going to go forward and troll you all starting in the year 2021. None of you will even see it coming. Josh
So, when people ask a question that has been asked, they get told to do a search of the forums. When they use an old forum post to get answers, they get attacked for resuscitating an old thread.
More proof of my blog post for sure.
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enigma
Apr 15, 2011, 12:20 AM
Post #48 of 54
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guangzhou wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: Why on earth would this thread be resurrected twice? Just to bash Jay? Doesn't he have enough current posts or are we now resorting to getting in our time machines and starting flame wars from the past. In that case I am going to go forward and troll you all starting in the year 2021. None of you will even see it coming. Josh So, when people ask a question that has been asked, they get told to do a search of the forums. When they use an old forum post to get answers, they get attacked for resuscitating an old thread. More proof of my blog post for sure.
no. no. no,no.no.no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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crazy_fingers84
Apr 15, 2011, 12:48 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Why on earth would this thread be resurrected twice? Just to bash Jay? Doesn't he have enough current posts or are we now resorting to getting in our time machines and starting flame wars from the past. In that case I am going to go forward and troll you all starting in the year 2021. None of you will even see it coming. Josh
thread resurrections make me smile... let this one die again, we'll bring it back in a few years.
p.s. excellent hex placing footage found here --->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO8ZPrFvqWQ
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RudyB
Apr 15, 2011, 1:47 AM
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Exactly what Guangzhou said. I wasn't here four years ago, so I didn't get to have my input then. I also didn't look at the dates before I posted; I simply found this forum when I did a search looking for a discussion on placing hexes. I then read what Jay (if that's his name) had to say, and was bothered by it, so I made that comment. If Jay no longer feels the way that he did four years ago, he can go and delete his old posts, or repudiate them with a new one. If Jay still feels the same way, then I stand by what I said, whether it's four years too late or not.
(This post was edited by RudyB on Apr 15, 2011, 1:48 AM)
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