|
|
|
|
aprice00
Apr 18, 2011, 5:01 PM
Post #1 of 23
(6226 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 7, 2010
Posts: 167
|
How do you get below the anchors? So I've come across this scenario a couple of times and thus far I don't have a good solution for it. So the question is WWRC.comD ?
Ex. 1
You have a route that is basically a very large free standing boulder. On one side is about 5.6 no anchors and tough down climb. The other side is an overhanging 5.10+ sport route w/ top anchors. So I climb to top via 5.6, run rope through anchors, and get ready to rap. After looking at it for about 15min. I cant figure out how to get below the anchors and opt for the sketchy 5.6 down climb.
40 ft. high nothing on top to tie to except one slingable flake.
Ex. 2
Another sport route (5.10+). On a ridgeline with a 5.6 down climb or very long walk off. This one has the anchors 10 feet down and a bomber tree up top.
What I do is climb the 5.6 (I guess free solo). loop rope around the tree. biner the loop to harness. lower to anchors using tree as pulley (rope rubbing across tree). Next I tie in to anchors, pull loop from around tree, run rope trough anchors and rap down.
(The only thing I dont like about this is the potential rope damage from the tree)
I know that the obvious answer is "learn to Sport climb" and I will but, Is there anything Im missing in the meantime?
|
|
|
|
|
roninthorne
Apr 18, 2011, 5:28 PM
Post #2 of 23
(6200 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 27, 2002
Posts: 659
|
Probably a troll, but I'm feeling generous.
Your question: What are you missing?
At a guess-
Frontal lobes and a pair of huevos.
Problem 1- You can stick clip your way up all but the most overhanging of sport routes (which is how most people who climb 5.12 and above get the draws up there before their "on sight" ascent), and batman between the bolts. If this was all greek to you, you have a long way to go.
Problem 2- Why didn't you rap from the tree and just clip into the anchors before transferring your rope to the route?
|
|
|
|
|
ChalkIsCheap
Apr 18, 2011, 5:28 PM
Post #3 of 23
(6198 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 27, 2010
Posts: 93
|
Yer Gonna Die...
|
|
|
|
|
gblauer
Moderator
Apr 18, 2011, 6:00 PM
Post #4 of 23
(6173 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 4, 2002
Posts: 2824
|
aprice00 wrote: Another sport route (5.10+). On a ridgeline with a 5.6 down climb or very long walk off. This one has the anchors 10 feet down and a bomber tree up top.
Set up a top rope off the tree. Bring some slings, or webbing or a cordalette or static line and set up a TR with lockers etc. Don't bother using the anchors below. When you are done, climb to the tree, clean up and walk off.
I suggest you stay off your first example until you can lead it. It sounds like a down climbing accident waiting to happen.
|
|
|
|
|
aprice00
Apr 18, 2011, 6:10 PM
Post #5 of 23
(6155 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 7, 2010
Posts: 167
|
roninthorne wrote: Problem 2- Why didn't you rap from the tree and just clip into the anchors before transferring your rope to the route?
Ok so I just realized that my underlining goal was to not leave gear on top.
Prob. #1 does not give you the option to walk off.
With Prob. #2 I concidered anchoring the tree but.... didnt want to leave gear.
|
|
|
|
|
aprice00
Apr 18, 2011, 6:18 PM
Post #6 of 23
(6149 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 7, 2010
Posts: 167
|
gblauer wrote: aprice00 wrote: Another sport route (5.10+). On a ridgeline with a 5.6 down climb or very long walk off. This one has the anchors 10 feet down and a bomber tree up top. I suggest you stay off your first example until you can lead it. It sounds like a down climbing accident waiting to happen.
Fair enough.. This was the answer I was afraid of but right nonetheless.
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Apr 18, 2011, 7:13 PM
Post #7 of 23
(6094 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
aprice00 wrote: roninthorne wrote: Problem 2- Why didn't you rap from the tree and just clip into the anchors before transferring your rope to the route? Ok so I just realized that my underlining goal was to not leave gear on top. Prob. #1 does not give you the option to walk off. With Prob. #2 I concidered anchoring the tree but.... didnt want to leave gear.
If you're toproping, you have to leave some kind of gear. What's the difference between one sling and 4, if you have to go up and retrieve them anyway? Added bonus on your second example: you can backup the bolts with whatever anchor you used to get down from the tree.
|
|
|
|
|
darkgift06
Apr 18, 2011, 7:56 PM
Post #8 of 23
(6065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 16, 2009
Posts: 492
|
sounds like you have a fear of the edge... it gets easier... Mostly get as low/as close to the anchor as you can.
1. Clip in to the anchor & make yourself safe.
2. Setup the TR anchor.
3. hook up & get ready for your rap.
4. Take up all slack in the rap, get super low, & slowly lower your self over the edge.
5. Once your hanging below the anchor, ensure that your rap/anchor looks good.
6. Remove your safety & finish the rap.
|
|
|
|
|
aprice00
Apr 18, 2011, 8:12 PM
Post #9 of 23
(6053 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 7, 2010
Posts: 167
|
petsfed wrote: aprice00 wrote: roninthorne wrote: Problem 2- Why didn't you rap from the tree and just clip into the anchors before transferring your rope to the route? Ok so I just realized that my underlining goal was to not leave gear on top. Prob. #1 does not give you the option to walk off. With Prob. #2 I concidered anchoring the tree but.... didnt want to leave gear. If you're toproping, you have to leave some kind of gear. What's the difference between one sling and 4, if you have to go up and retrieve them anyway? Added bonus on your second example: you can backup the bolts with whatever anchor you used to get down from the tree.
In Prob. #1
Retrieving gear puts you in the same down climbing situation as setting the TR.
I agree for #2 though.
|
|
|
|
|
shockabuku
Apr 18, 2011, 8:14 PM
Post #10 of 23
(6053 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
|
Use a ground anchor on the other side of the boulder and run the rope over the top, clipped to the opposite anchor so it doesn't slide off.
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Apr 18, 2011, 8:36 PM
Post #11 of 23
(6031 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
darkgift06 wrote: sounds like you have a fear of the edge... it gets easier... Mostly get as low/as close to the anchor as you can. 1. Clip in to the anchor & make yourself safe. 2. Setup the TR anchor. 3. hook up & get ready for your rap. 4. Take up all slack in the rap, get super low, & slowly lower your self over the edge. 5. Once your hanging below the anchor, ensure that your rap/anchor looks good. 6. Remove your safety & finish the rap.
Definitely a fear of the edge thing that needs to be addressed. That said, when I have to rig for rappel with my feet above the anchor, I will walk off or down climb EVERY TIME. This is only really an issue if I have lay on my belly to rig.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Apr 18, 2011, 9:10 PM
Post #12 of 23
(5999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
aprice00 wrote: How do you get below the anchors? So I've come across this scenario a couple of times and thus far I don't have a good solution for it. So the question is WWRC.comD ? Ex. 1 You have a route that is basically a very large free standing boulder. On one side is about 5.6 no anchors and tough down climb. The other side is an overhanging 5.10+ sport route w/ top anchors. So I climb to top via 5.6, run rope through anchors, and get ready to rap. After looking at it for about 15min. I cant figure out how to get below the anchors and opt for the sketchy 5.6 down climb. 40 ft. high nothing on top to tie to except one slingable flake.
Tie in. Run the rope through the anchors. Toss the free end of the rope down. Have your partner put you on belay. Downlcimb to the anchors, and then have him lower you. If you fall while downclimbing, you're taking, what, a fall-factor 0.1 fall? Big deal.
In reply to: Ex. 2 Another sport route (5.10+). On a ridgeline with a 5.6 down climb or very long walk off. This one has the anchors 10 feet down and a bomber tree up top. What I do is climb the 5.6 (I guess free solo). loop rope around the tree. biner the loop to harness. lower to anchors using tree as pulley (rope rubbing across tree). Next I tie in to anchors, pull loop from around tree, run rope trough anchors and rap down. (The only thing I dont like about this is the potential rope damage from the tree)
That'll harm the tree and your rope. You should rap from the tree to the anchors. Clip in to the anchors. Tie in. Pull your rope. Thread the rope through the anchors. Go on belay. Lower.
I'd consider using a sling around the tree as my rap anchor, and abandoning the sling, to save having to pull the rope around the tree itself, especially if the sling would not be visible from the ground.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Apr 19, 2011, 7:18 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
redonkulus
Apr 18, 2011, 10:20 PM
Post #13 of 23
(5949 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 2, 2010
Posts: 216
|
jt512 wrote: I'd consider using a sling around the tree as my rap anchor, and abandoning the sling, to save having to pull the rope around the tree itself, especially if the sling would not be visible from the ground. Jay
And if you do this, make sure you rappel off the sling, don't lower off the sling. You'll burn through it and fall to your death in like 2 seconds if you lower.
|
|
|
|
|
esander4
Apr 18, 2011, 10:24 PM
Post #14 of 23
(5944 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 8, 2010
Posts: 245
|
jt512 wrote: aprice00 wrote: How do you get below the anchors? So I've come across this scenario a couple of times and thus far I don't have a good solution for it. So the question is WWRC.comD ? Ex. 1 You have a route that is basically a very large free standing boulder. On one side is about 5.6 no anchors and tough down climb. The other side is an overhanging 5.10+ sport route w/ top anchors. So I climb to top via 5.6, run rope through anchors, and get ready to rap. After looking at it for about 15min. I cant figure out how to get below the anchors and opt for the sketchy 5.6 down climb. 40 ft. high nothing on top to tie to except one slingable flake. Tie in. Run the rope through the anchors. Toss the free end of the rope down. Have your partner put you on belay. Downlcimb to the anchors, and then have him lower you. If you fall while downclimbing you're taking, what, a fall-factor 0.1 fall. Big deal. In reply to: Ex. 2 Another sport route (5.10+). On a ridgeline with a 5.6 down climb or very long walk off. This one has the anchors 10 feet down and a bomber tree up top. What I do is climb the 5.6 (I guess free solo). loop rope around the tree. biner the loop to harness. lower to anchors using tree as pulley (rope rubbing across tree). Next I tie in to anchors, pull loop from around tree, run rope trough anchors and rap down. (The only thing I dont like about this is the potential rope damage from the tree) That'll harm the tree and your rope. You should rap from the tree to the anchors. Clip in to the anchors. Tie in. Pull your rope. Thread the rope through the anchors. Go on belay. Lower. I'd consider using a sling around the tree as my rap anchor, and abandoning the sling, to save having to pull the rope around the tree itself, especially if the sling would not be visible from the ground. Jay
Is it just me or have your posts been a lot...well....nicer the last week or so? 
|
|
|
|
|
onrockandice
Apr 18, 2011, 10:56 PM
Post #15 of 23
(5931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 16, 2009
Posts: 355
|
He's been downright tame hasn't he? I really figured the knives were coming out and we were all having sushi. Must be Monday.
|
|
|
|
|
jammer
Apr 19, 2011, 1:47 AM
Post #16 of 23
(5867 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 25, 2002
Posts: 3472
|
jt512 wrote: aprice00 wrote: How do you get below the anchors? So I've come across this scenario a couple of times and thus far I don't have a good solution for it. So the question is WWRC.comD ? Ex. 1 You have a route that is basically a very large free standing boulder. On one side is about 5.6 no anchors and tough down climb. The other side is an overhanging 5.10+ sport route w/ top anchors. So I climb to top via 5.6, run rope through anchors, and get ready to rap. After looking at it for about 15min. I cant figure out how to get below the anchors and opt for the sketchy 5.6 down climb. 40 ft. high nothing on top to tie to except one slingable flake. Tie in. Run the rope through the anchors. Toss the free end of the rope down. Have your partner put you on belay. Downlcimb to the anchors, and then have him lower you. If you fall while downclimbing you're taking, what, a fall-factor 0.1 fall. Big deal. In reply to: Ex. 2 Another sport route (5.10+). On a ridgeline with a 5.6 down climb or very long walk off. This one has the anchors 10 feet down and a bomber tree up top. What I do is climb the 5.6 (I guess free solo). loop rope around the tree. biner the loop to harness. lower to anchors using tree as pulley (rope rubbing across tree). Next I tie in to anchors, pull loop from around tree, run rope trough anchors and rap down. (The only thing I dont like about this is the potential rope damage from the tree) That'll harm the tree and your rope. You should rap from the tree to the anchors. Clip in to the anchors. Tie in. Pull your rope. Thread the rope through the anchors. Go on belay. Lower. I'd consider using a sling around the tree as my rap anchor, and abandoning the sling, to save having to pull the rope around the tree itself, especially if the sling would not be visible from the ground. Jay
|
|
|
|
|
ClimbSoHigh
Apr 19, 2011, 12:26 PM
Post #17 of 23
(5759 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 208
|
In reply to: How do you get below the anchors? So I've come across this scenario a couple of times and thus far I don't have a good solution for it. So the question is WWRC.comD ? Ex. 1 You have a route that is basically a very large free standing boulder. On one side is about 5.6 no anchors and tough down climb. The other side is an overhanging 5.10+ sport route w/ top anchors. So I climb to top via 5.6, run rope through anchors, and get ready to rap. After looking at it for about 15min. I cant figure out how to get below the anchors and opt for the sketchy 5.6 down climb. 40 ft. high nothing on top to tie to except one slingable flake. Ex. 2 Another sport route (5.10+). On a ridgeline with a 5.6 down climb or very long walk off. This one has the anchors 10 feet down and a bomber tree up top. What I do is climb the 5.6 (I guess free solo). loop rope around the tree. biner the loop to harness. lower to anchors using tree as pulley (rope rubbing across tree). Next I tie in to anchors, pull loop from around tree, run rope trough anchors and rap down. (The only thing I dont like about this is the potential rope damage from the tree) I know that the obvious answer is "learn to Sport climb" and I will but, Is there anything Im missing in the meantime?
The other obvious answer is to stand around with a smile until someone comes to lead your route, when they do, ask them to hang your draws and rope. Most people have no issue hanging a TR or swapping out draws for the nex climber if you ask.
To your question troll or not...
Prob #1. I would stay off this climb if your only way down is down climbing a 5.6 unprotected. I am currious how you were able to reach the bolts to set up a rap, yet couldn't rap. Usually if you can reach the bolts from up top, you should be able to rap from it.
prob #2. Instead of lowing your self to the anchors to hang your draws, just rap off the tree itself. Just put the rope around the tree with no biners or webbing, and then just rap to the anchors. Go direct to the anchors, and pull your rope. It will still do a number on your sheath and get sap and shit on it, but way less damage than your method of lowering off the tree. I would not try to incorperate the tree into the bolted anchor since the distance of rope/webbing to the tree would be way more than the draws meaning very little force would be taken by this extra effort.
|
|
|
|
|
aprice00
Apr 19, 2011, 2:35 PM
Post #18 of 23
(5715 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 7, 2010
Posts: 167
|
ClimbSoHigh wrote: In reply to: How do you get below the anchors? So I've come across this scenario a couple of times and thus far I don't have a good solution for it. So the question is WWRC.comD ? Ex. 1 You have a route that is basically a very large free standing boulder. On one side is about 5.6 no anchors and tough down climb. The other side is an overhanging 5.10+ sport route w/ top anchors. So I climb to top via 5.6, run rope through anchors, and get ready to rap. After looking at it for about 15min. I cant figure out how to get below the anchors and opt for the sketchy 5.6 down climb. 40 ft. high nothing on top to tie to except one slingable flake. Ex. 2 Another sport route (5.10+). On a ridgeline with a 5.6 down climb or very long walk off. This one has the anchors 10 feet down and a bomber tree up top. What I do is climb the 5.6 (I guess free solo). loop rope around the tree. biner the loop to harness. lower to anchors using tree as pulley (rope rubbing across tree). Next I tie in to anchors, pull loop from around tree, run rope trough anchors and rap down. (The only thing I dont like about this is the potential rope damage from the tree) I know that the obvious answer is "learn to Sport climb" and I will but, Is there anything Im missing in the meantime? The other obvious answer is to stand around with a smile until someone comes to lead your route, when they do, ask them to hang your draws and rope. Most people have no issue hanging a TR or swapping out draws for the nex climber if you ask. To your question troll or not... Prob #1. I would stay off this climb if your only way down is down climbing a 5.6 unprotected. I am currious how you were able to reach the bolts to set up a rap, yet couldn't rap. Usually if you can reach the bolts from up top, you should be able to rap from it. prob #2. Instead of lowing your self to the anchors to hang your draws, just rap off the tree itself. Just put the rope around the tree with no biners or webbing, and then just rap to the anchors. Go direct to the anchors, and pull your rope. It will still do a number on your sheath and get sap and shit on it, but way less damage than your method of lowering off the tree. I would not try to incorperate the tree into the bolted anchor since the distance of rope/webbing to the tree would be way more than the draws meaning very little force would be taken by this extra effort.
Ex. 1 has a flat top so I just lay down and feed the rope through the anchors. The anchors are about a foot down so I pulled two bites and feed it into my atc. I could've clipped into the bolts with a long sling and slid off the edge untill I was under the bolts. It just fells wrong laying on your belly with you legs dangling, grinding the atc, and trying to shimmy off an overhang.
I dont have a fear of hights, more of a healthy respect for it.
No this is not a Troll Im just looking for an aproach that I hadnt thought of.
So far I like the over the top rope for Ex.1 and the paracorded sling for Ex.2. Giving that they look legit when set up.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Apr 19, 2011, 2:58 PM
Post #19 of 23
(5701 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
esander4 wrote: jt512 wrote: aprice00 wrote: How do you get below the anchors? So I've come across this scenario a couple of times and thus far I don't have a good solution for it. So the question is WWRC.comD ? Ex. 1 You have a route that is basically a very large free standing boulder. On one side is about 5.6 no anchors and tough down climb. The other side is an overhanging 5.10+ sport route w/ top anchors. So I climb to top via 5.6, run rope through anchors, and get ready to rap. After looking at it for about 15min. I cant figure out how to get below the anchors and opt for the sketchy 5.6 down climb. 40 ft. high nothing on top to tie to except one slingable flake. Tie in. Run the rope through the anchors. Toss the free end of the rope down. Have your partner put you on belay. Downlcimb to the anchors, and then have him lower you. If you fall while downclimbing you're taking, what, a fall-factor 0.1 fall. Big deal. In reply to: Ex. 2 Another sport route (5.10+). On a ridgeline with a 5.6 down climb or very long walk off. This one has the anchors 10 feet down and a bomber tree up top. What I do is climb the 5.6 (I guess free solo). loop rope around the tree. biner the loop to harness. lower to anchors using tree as pulley (rope rubbing across tree). Next I tie in to anchors, pull loop from around tree, run rope trough anchors and rap down. (The only thing I dont like about this is the potential rope damage from the tree) That'll harm the tree and your rope. You should rap from the tree to the anchors. Clip in to the anchors. Tie in. Pull your rope. Thread the rope through the anchors. Go on belay. Lower. I'd consider using a sling around the tree as my rap anchor, and abandoning the sling, to save having to pull the rope around the tree itself, especially if the sling would not be visible from the ground. Jay Is it just me or have your posts been a lot...well....nicer the last week or so?
I would just add two things to his post, though...
Firstly, please put some beaners on the anchors. TR'ing on them directly wears them down unnecessarily.
Secondly, if you are using this method on a route you haven't dont before... make damn sure the rope is long enough! this means ensuring that the halfway mark is on the ground before you start lowering or (potentially more thourugh, but certainly more time consuming) having both ends touch the ground.
|
|
|
|
|
esander4
Apr 20, 2011, 4:29 AM
Post #20 of 23
(5617 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 8, 2010
Posts: 245
|
sungam wrote: If you look through his posts quite a large proportion of them are actually really helpful.
Oh no I realize they are, I know he's really experienced. Come on, you knew what i meant.
|
|
|
|
|
shotwell
Apr 20, 2011, 12:17 PM
Post #21 of 23
(5573 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 6, 2009
Posts: 366
|
Maybe they've always read that way and you're not just as butthurt. As a loooooooooong time lurker, I'd say this is likely the case.
|
|
|
|
|
rtwilli4
Apr 20, 2011, 12:26 PM
Post #22 of 23
(5566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 1867
|
sungam wrote: esander4 wrote: jt512 wrote: aprice00 wrote: How do you get below the anchors? So I've come across this scenario a couple of times and thus far I don't have a good solution for it. So the question is WWRC.comD ? Ex. 1 You have a route that is basically a very large free standing boulder. On one side is about 5.6 no anchors and tough down climb. The other side is an overhanging 5.10+ sport route w/ top anchors. So I climb to top via 5.6, run rope through anchors, and get ready to rap. After looking at it for about 15min. I cant figure out how to get below the anchors and opt for the sketchy 5.6 down climb. 40 ft. high nothing on top to tie to except one slingable flake. Tie in. Run the rope through the anchors. Toss the free end of the rope down. Have your partner put you on belay. Downlcimb to the anchors, and then have him lower you. If you fall while downclimbing you're taking, what, a fall-factor 0.1 fall. Big deal. In reply to: Ex. 2 Another sport route (5.10+). On a ridgeline with a 5.6 down climb or very long walk off. This one has the anchors 10 feet down and a bomber tree up top. What I do is climb the 5.6 (I guess free solo). loop rope around the tree. biner the loop to harness. lower to anchors using tree as pulley (rope rubbing across tree). Next I tie in to anchors, pull loop from around tree, run rope trough anchors and rap down. (The only thing I dont like about this is the potential rope damage from the tree) That'll harm the tree and your rope. You should rap from the tree to the anchors. Clip in to the anchors. Tie in. Pull your rope. Thread the rope through the anchors. Go on belay. Lower. I'd consider using a sling around the tree as my rap anchor, and abandoning the sling, to save having to pull the rope around the tree itself, especially if the sling would not be visible from the ground. Jay Is it just me or have your posts been a lot...well....nicer the last week or so? If you look through his posts quite a large proportion of them are actually really helpful. I would just add two things to his post, though... Firstly, please put some beaners on the anchors. TR'ing on them directly wears them down unnecessarily. Secondly, if you are using this method on a route you haven't dont before... make damn sure the rope is long enough! this means ensuring that the halfway mark is on the ground before you start lowering or (potentially more thourugh, but certainly more time consuming) having both ends touch the ground.
Not much more to add to these posts except for one thing:
If you can free solo 5.6 then you should be able to down climb 5.6.
|
|
|
|
|
mr.tastycakes
Apr 20, 2011, 12:28 PM
Post #23 of 23
(5566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 310
|
Too much dicking around on the edge of the cliff, IMO. That can be quite dangerous.
Stick clip or hangdog your way up to the anchors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
