Sep 18, 2011, 7:58 AM
Post #1 of 11
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Are things like Petzl Strings safe to use to stabilize 'biners on cam slings?
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I'm a relatively new trad climber and have a gear question. I usually put Petzl Strings on the biners of my cams to prevent them from wiggling around and/or flipping during placement. They seem to have served me well for the better part of 6 months. It makes clipping much easier and I never flip a 'biner anymore (this happened occasionally before strings). I've fallen on cams with Strings on them plenty of times and they caught me no differently than without. One of my buddies recently told me that having the 'biner stabilized would make the cam walk more, and could be dangerous if I were to manage clipping the 'biner into the sling a second time, causing the load to go straight to the String. Intrigued, I actually tried to do this with the cam in a placement at the ground. I absolutely was not able to clip the 'biner back through the sling a second time with one hand, but managed (with quite a bit of effort) to accomplish this with two hands. I argue that they could actually be safer because they prevent the 'biner from flipping or, worse yet, cross loading on a fall (which actually just happened to me today when I was using a friend's gear without strings). What do you all think? Strings or no strings? Thanks for the input =)
Sep 18, 2011, 9:38 AM
Post #2 of 11
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Re: [Wupperdo] Are things like Petzl Strings safe to use to stabilize 'biners on cam slings?
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A biner that is free to move in the sling will move in the sling rather then move the sling, and big movement in the sling makes the cam walk, so havin a stabilized 'biner increases how much the cam will walk.
The clipping through itself thing is more and issue for longer slings rather then for short slings found on a QD or a cam.
Sep 18, 2011, 10:25 AM
Post #3 of 11
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Re: [Wupperdo] Are things like Petzl Strings safe to use to stabilize 'biners on cam slings?
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The string and similar constructions can in fact become a danger on open slings. Seems like it is quite hard to accidentally clip a short sling a second time, so the added risk for you should be rather small, but still, you should check your cams before each use if they didnt get clipped a second time. The risk here is probably not that YOU clip them a second time, but that they got clipped while you stuffed them in you pack, pulled them out, bunched them up, stuffed them somewhere else…etc
However the question is, if the string is really needed!
I am quite anal about flipped biners (see here), but with the cams i never found this to be a problem.
I rack them on the harness on cam per biner, so they are always hanging in the correct position. I take the cam from the harness, put it in the crack, and the carabiner always hangs in the right position anyways.
Risk for crossloading? dont know, but i figure with a sling, the carabiner should just flip in the correct position when it gets loaded, so i dont see a problem there.
More walking? Maybe? I dont see the fixed biner making the cam walk significantly more, but a bit more maybe.
So given that it doesnt have any benefits, + an additional (small?) risk + maybe a tad more walking, i wouldnt suggest to use a string on a cam.
also you cant easily remove the biner from the cam mid pitch, when you clip a draw to it anyways, and figure that you might need the biner somewhere else.
Sep 18, 2011, 4:39 PM
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Re: [Wupperdo] Are things like Petzl Strings safe to use to stabilize 'biners on cam slings?
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I know of several incidents in which someone decked/died because they were imporperly using a String or something similar. Probably not going to happen w/ a cam sling but it's possible. I rarely, if ever hear about someone falling on a biner and breaking it because it was cross loaded.
I understand the flipping biner thing, but like people have said, the stable biner could cause the cam to walk which is worse than having to flip a biner around every once in a while.
Just listen to people when they tell you what they like/don't like and why. Don't ignore anyone, be open-minded and humble and you'll learn a lot. I don't think you're going to get hurt or dead because you're using the Strings but that is not what they are inteded for and I don't think that you are saving yourself by using them in that way.
Sep 22, 2011, 11:17 PM
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Re: [Wupperdo] Are things like Petzl Strings safe to use to stabilize 'biners on cam slings?
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Wupperdo wrote:
I'm a relatively new trad climber and have a gear question. I usually put Petzl Strings on the biners of my cams to prevent them from wiggling around and/or flipping during placement. They seem to have served me well for the better part of 6 months. It makes clipping much easier and I never flip a 'biner anymore (this happened occasionally before strings). I've fallen on cams with Strings on them plenty of times and they caught me no differently than without. One of my buddies recently told me that having the 'biner stabilized would make the cam walk more, and could be dangerous if I were to manage clipping the 'biner into the sling a second time, causing the load to go straight to the String. Intrigued, I actually tried to do this with the cam in a placement at the ground. I absolutely was not able to clip the 'biner back through the sling a second time with one hand, but managed (with quite a bit of effort) to accomplish this with two hands. I argue that they could actually be safer because they prevent the 'biner from flipping or, worse yet, cross loading on a fall (which actually just happened to me today when I was using a friend's gear without strings). What do you all think? Strings or no strings? Thanks for the input =)
Sep 23, 2011, 10:59 AM
Post #9 of 11
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Re: [Wupperdo] Are things like Petzl Strings safe to use to stabilize 'biners on cam slings?
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Wupperdo wrote:
I'm a relatively new trad climber and have a gear question. I usually put Petzl Strings on the biners of my cams to prevent them from wiggling around and/or flipping during placement. They seem to have served me well for the better part of 6 months. It makes clipping much easier and I never flip a 'biner anymore (this happened occasionally before strings). I've fallen on cams with Strings on them plenty of times and they caught me no differently than without. One of my buddies recently told me that having the 'biner stabilized would make the cam walk more, and could be dangerous if I were to manage clipping the 'biner into the sling a second time, causing the load to go straight to the String. Intrigued, I actually tried to do this with the cam in a placement at the ground. I absolutely was not able to clip the 'biner back through the sling a second time with one hand, but managed (with quite a bit of effort) to accomplish this with two hands. I argue that they could actually be safer because they prevent the 'biner from flipping or, worse yet, cross loading on a fall (which actually just happened to me today when I was using a friend's gear without strings). What do you all think? Strings or no strings? Thanks for the input =)
I don't think unclipping is much of an issue on a short cam sling, but I think it will make the unit more likely to walk.
Sep 23, 2011, 2:38 PM
Post #10 of 11
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Re: [j_ung] Are things like Petzl Strings safe to use to stabilize 'biners on cam slings?
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personally i clip separate draws to my cams and leave the racking biner hanging so i want those to be able to move out of the way. strings wouldn't allow that. add that to the walking issue and not being able to "steal" that biner for other uses.. not worth the cost or effort.
Sep 23, 2011, 2:48 PM
Post #11 of 11
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Re: [jakedatc] Are things like Petzl Strings safe to use to stabilize 'biners on cam slings?
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Not to pick on the OP too much, seeing he said he's a relatively new trad leader, but this thread leads to only one logical summary:
"This is Wupperdo. He has problems clipping his cams because the cam biners sometimes move and aren't held in the perfect clipping position and he wants to use Petzl strings on them. Wupperdo, harden the fuck up!"
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