This really all comes down to partners checking partners

This really all comes down to partners checking partners

I politely disagree. First and foremost it comes down to the climber tying the knot properly. EVERY TIME..... Never let complacency creep in....

I am one of the climbing guides at HCR and was at the ranch during the accident. There are a number of things that need to be clarified and addressed, and our thoughts need to move on towards a speedy recovery for the girl.

First off, this was not a guided climb. It was three good friends out climbing. The belayer was in fact one of our guides, which is where the assumption came from, but he was simply out climbing with two friends he has known for a long time. It was his day off, and they had come up for the weekend.

Secondly, the accident was an unfinished knot. The climber tied her own knot, and unfortunately she did not finish it. She has been climbing for around 5 years. When she reached the anchors and sat in her harness, the knot came untied and she fell. She was not wearing a helmet, and is beyond lucky that she sustained no head trauma.

Thirdly, it did not take anywhere near 2 to 3 hours before she was flown out. Her belayer had a radio and immediately called it in. We received his message for a mediflight and immediately called 911. First responders were at the parking lot incredibly fast, and mediflight arrived at the same time the ambulance did. There were several EMT's and other knowledgeable people that were on the scene within a matter of moments. In situations like this it often feels like hours have gone by, but I can assure you that she was in the helicopter in around an hour.

This is exactly the kind of thing we all hear about and think will never happen, but that is why they are called accidents. A great majority of us go out and climb without helmets, and a good number of us don't double check our climbers knots. As guides we spend day after day, week after week, tieing clients in and double checking our systems before every climb. We use helmets as guides because that's the right thing to do. But when we go out with our friends, most of us are guilty of ditching the helmet or trusting that our climbing partner can and will tie their knot correctly. Unfortunately, this kind of thing happens, and she is very lucky things went the way they did.

I can't go into the details of her condition, but I can say that things look extremely hopeful. She has no head trauma, and has feeling in her legs. She is expected to make a full recovery, but it will be a very long and difficult road. If you could keep her in your thoughts, that would be greatly appreciated.

First off, this was not a guided climb. It was three good friends out climbing. The belayer was in fact one of our guides, which is where the assumption came from, but he was simply out climbing with two friends he has known for a long time. It was his day off, and they had come up for the weekend.

Secondly, the accident was an unfinished knot. The climber tied her own knot, and unfortunately she did not finish it. She has been climbing for around 5 years. When she reached the anchors and sat in her harness, the knot came untied and she fell. She was not wearing a helmet, and is beyond lucky that she sustained no head trauma.

You're both right. It's your own responsibility, but the way I see it part of that responsibility is to be honest with yourself and your partners about human nature. We goof up -- all of us, there is no immunity from it.

I hope she recovers soon.

This is a mistake that anyone can make in a moment of inattention - you start tying in, get distracted by something, and never go back to finishing your knot. I try very hard never to get distracted once I start my knot - but it happens. I always double-check, talking it through out loud and showing my partner, and then he does the same. Just 2 weeks ago this double check picked up exactly this scenario - I'd stopped halfway through typing the knot to help with something, then neglected to finish it. No harm done, slapped myself mentally and carried on - but reinforced my longstanding practice of partner checks. And if my partner isn't there (cleaning, setting anchors, setting off on rap) I check again, out loud.

Whatever works for you - but don't kid yourself, everyone eventually makes mistakes, and partner checks better your odds.

I politely disagree. First and foremost it comes down to the climber tying the knot properly. EVERY TIME. There are many situation where you can't have your partner check your knot or other item which your life depends on.

Your harness. Your knot. Your rope. Your anchor. All needs to be explicitly checked. The consequences for failure are obvious and great. Never let complacency creep in.

Partner checks? Well they're goo too. But 75% of my life critical decisions my partner isn't there to check.

... I refuse to teach partner check...Anything that removes any part of his responsibility to be 100% correct and double check himself is stupid and a system which promotes a culture of `it´s all right, someone else will check´is doubly stupid.

It´s illogical anyway, if he can´t be trusted to tie his own knot then I´m not trusting his checking ability either!

I have a simple rule to check my own knot when I reach down to clip the first piece and consider this the best habit to get into.

Quite agree, I refuse to teach partner check as a concept for those reasons. I expect my partner to tie knots which I will be relying on when I´m not there to check, same for building belays, setting up abseils in the dark and so on. Anything that removes any part of his responsibility to be 100% correct and double check himself is stupid and a system which promotes a culture of `it´s all right, someone else will check´is doubly stupid.
It´s illogical anyway, if he can´t be trusted to tie his own knot then I´m not trusting his checking ability either!

I have a simple rule to check my own knot when I reach down to clip the first piece and consider this the best habit to get into.

Jim, a simple pre-climb check of your partner does not create in him a nanny mentality. It reminds him that he's fallible, and thus reminds him to watch out for himself (and his partners).

This really all comes down to partners checking partners

I politely disagree. First and foremost it comes down to the climber tying the knot properly. EVERY TIME. There are many situation where you can't have your partner check your knot or other item which your life depends on.

Your harness. Your knot. Your rope. Your anchor. All needs to be explicitly checked. The consequences for failure are obvious and great. Never let complacency creep in.

Partner checks? Well they're goo too. But 75% of my life critical decisions my partner isn't there to check.

Quite agree, I refuse to teach partner check as a concept for those reasons. I expect my partner to tie knots which I will be relying on when I´m not there to check, same for building belays, setting up abseils in the dark and so on. Anything that removes any part of his responsibility to be 100% correct and double check himself is stupid and a system which promotes a culture of `it´s all right, someone else will check´is doubly stupid.
It´s illogical anyway, if he can´t be trusted to tie his own knot then I´m not trusting his checking ability either!

I have a simple rule to check my own knot when I reach down to clip the first piece and consider this the best habit to get into.

So what happens the other 75% of the time when your partner can't check your anchor/knots/protection?

So what happens the other 75% of the time when your partner can't check your anchor/knots/protection?

1. The base of most popular crags have a pretty casual atmosphere with people coming and going, gearing up, beta swapping, planning dinner, etc... Generally speaking, those type of distractions don't exist during our solitary moments on the wall. Usually we just have the task at hand to focus on.

I have never said don't do partner checks. But if you think that they are necessary then I question the your own competence and reliability.


If there is a casual atmosphere that is leading to distraction and mistakes then the solution isn't partner checks.

Quite agree, I refuse to teach partner check as a concept for those reasons. I expect my partner to tie knots which I will be relying on when I´m not there to check, same for building belays, setting up abseils in the dark and so on. Anything that removes any part of his responsibility to be 100% correct and double check himself is stupid and a system which promotes a culture of `it´s all right, someone else will check´is doubly stupid.
It´s illogical anyway, if he can´t be trusted to tie his own knot then I´m not trusting his checking ability either!

I have a simple rule to check my own knot when I reach down to clip the first piece and consider this the best habit to get into.

I´m the one tying-in with the rethreaded bowline anyway so most buddy-check fans would be screwed to start with.

...since there I can clip in and do something about it...

I have a simple rule to check my own knot when I reach down to clip the first piece and consider this the best habit to get into.