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zealotnoob
Oct 21, 2011, 10:36 PM
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http://bailureblog.blogspot.com/...seneca-rocks_21.html
I wanted to get my feet wet with video making. This is my first effort. It's from a redpoint ascent of Spock's Brain (5.11a trad) on the east face of Seneca Rocks in WV.
Any lessons learned out there for creating these amateur videos? Anything on getting usable footage from a helmet cam?
Thanks.
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marc801
Oct 22, 2011, 12:01 AM
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zealotnoob wrote: http://bailureblog.blogspot.com/...seneca-rocks_21.html I wanted to get my feet wet with video making. This is my first effort. It's from a redpoint ascent of Spock's Brain (5.11a trad) on the east face of Seneca Rocks in WV. Any lessons learned out there for creating these amateur videos? Anything on getting usable footage from a helmet cam?
1. get your talent to do the climb several times so you can shoot it from different angles and edit the good shots together - maybe not the entire climb, but key - preferably exciting - sections. This takes lots of time and effort of all involved.
2. other than perhaps the name and grade at the very beginning, captions and subtitles are annoying. If it was a great fall day, don't tell me about it - show me.
3. music is always a hard choice, but it should be secondary to the visuals; yours is a little overpowering (and I really dislike that style of jazz, but that's a personal thing)
4. unless your talent is really buff, I don't want to see their scrawny yet somehow flabby pale torsos. *Please* make them wear shirts.
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zealotnoob
Oct 22, 2011, 1:15 AM
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Ouch. The talent is me.
(This post was edited by zealotnoob on Mar 13, 2012, 8:51 PM)
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naitch
Oct 22, 2011, 12:54 PM
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marc801 wrote: zealotnoob wrote: http://bailureblog.blogspot.com/...seneca-rocks_21.html I wanted to get my feet wet with video making. This is my first effort. It's from a redpoint ascent of Spock's Brain (5.11a trad) on the east face of Seneca Rocks in WV. Any lessons learned out there for creating these amateur videos? Anything on getting usable footage from a helmet cam? Quick suggestions: 1. get your talent to do the climb several times so you can shoot it from different angles and edit the good shots together - maybe not the entire climb, but key - preferably exciting - sections. This takes lots of time and effort of all involved. 2. other than perhaps the name and grade at the very beginning, captions and subtitles are annoying. If it was a great fall day, don't tell me about it - show me. 3. music is always a hard choice, but it should be secondary to the visuals; yours is a little overpowering (and I really dislike that style of jazz, but that's a personal thing) 4. unless your talent is really buff, I don't want to see their scrawny yet somehow flabby pale torsos. *Please* make them wear shirts.
Hey Daniel,
I don't know if you remember me, but we climbed together for a day at Seneca a year or two ago. I was actually supposed to be over at the Chili-cook off today but have to cover at the gym today since the person who was supposed to work broke her ankle climbing.
I agree mostly with the comments above - especially 1 & 2 - I've made the same mistake in #2). I've had a couple years of critiquing my son's video's who is a professional videographer and occasionally does climbing related stuff. (He's also has sent Spock's Brain). I'll pass on your link to him and see if he could give any constructive criticism.
I feel like the music is an integral part of the video, and while not the primary focus, it can either make a good video better and add that extra pizazz, or, it can "break it". I know my son has spent a lot of time laboring over music choices and often he nails it. For examples of his stuff see: http://jessespaulding.com/...spaulding/Films.html and http://www.sicvisuals.com/Home.html
As a side note, I appreciated your question to the Self-Coached Climber gurus re training for trad. Very helpful. (http://www.selfcoachedclimber.com/...0/training-for-trad/)
(This post was edited by naitch on Oct 23, 2011, 2:20 AM)
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jeepnphreak
Oct 22, 2011, 8:41 PM
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My opinions on the video.
1. as mentioned the subtitles are obnoxous, at the beginning, location and route with route difficulty is great. Then a quick bit on the crux is OK, Nothing else more.
I dont care about the chili cook off, it has no meaning to me as a viewer accross the country.
I dont care about the weather and can see you are shirtless, so it must be fairly nice.
Save thanks and stuff for the end. Thanking the camera man half way is rude to him. You are basicly telling him that is work is through before the job is done.
But overall a nice amature composistion. the camera man did well with the shake. and the framing was not too far out or zoomed in too much.
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notapplicable
Oct 23, 2011, 1:07 AM
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Strong work on the climb dude. I've looked at that thing before and its kinda thin in spots.
It would have been nice to see some varied perspectives during the video. Either shot from more than one position or part of it zoomed in on the climber. Since climbing is an inherently slow process, having more than one nearly static shot for the entire route would help hold the viewers attention.
Oh, and your belayer sitting down on a redpoint burn. WTF?
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darkgift06
Oct 24, 2011, 10:10 PM
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my opinions..
Opening shot... don't start with you 1/3 up the climb.
multiple views, because it is a trad climb a full shot of the line/crack would be nice. Also up close shots of you placing some gear.
I don't mind the captions... but I think they would be better if you read them & had them as a verbal commentary.
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zealotnoob
Oct 26, 2011, 1:28 AM
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Thanks all for the comments.
Yeah, varied angles would be key. Will have to shoot for that down the road.
About the captions, remember on MTV, they used to do that thing where they'd play some classic music video and caption bubbles would pop up with tidbits about the band, etc? I suppose I was going for something like that. Thought it might help given the slow pace of trad face climbing. A failed notion I suppose.
The music? I like that videos like these can bring attention to some really unique/obscure tracks, which is what I was going for. Also thought the song jived with the feeling of the day. But it just didn't click, eh?
Naitch, I certainly remember you. Hope the photography is going well and look forward to catching up sometime soon.
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naitch
Oct 26, 2011, 2:37 AM
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zealotnoob wrote: Thanks all for the comments. Yeah, varied angles would be key. Will have to shoot for that down the road. About the captions, remember on MTV, they used to do that thing where they'd play some classic music video and caption bubbles would pop up with tidbits about the band, etc? I suppose I was going for something like that. Thought it might help given the slow pace of trad face climbing. A failed notion I suppose. The music? I like that videos like these can bring attention to some really unique/obscure tracks, which is what I was going for. Also thought the song jived with the feeling of the day. But it just didn't click, eh? Naitch, I certainly remember you. Hope the photography is going well and look forward to catching up sometime soon.
Captions can be good or bad. A friend used them in a "video" we collaborated on and I think it came out OK. It was a bit different in that we were making a movie using stills: http://vimeo.com/11463255 I think it's tricky to integrate them in way that's not obnoxious or over does it. The other tricky thing with captions is the timing - not leaving it on to short or too long. I think in our video above some of them didn't have enough time but we wanted the video to be fast tempo
I agree that it's great to use obscure music with videos. Ultimately it may be more a personal taste of viewers of whether it works or not. There is music that "works" and that which doesn't - as determined by the majority of your viewers. Then, there is that piece of music that just nails it and lifts the video out of being just something interesting to extraordinary. The video and the music/lyrics interact in a synergistic way that makes the video memorable. Easy to articulate but hard to do.
Lastly something that hasn't been mentioned and I talk to my son about (and he's the professional videographer), is that it needs to tell a story. There are plenty of video's out there that just show someone's latest/greatest send - especially in the bouldering world. And that's OK, but if it can tell a story then it will be more interesting and memorable and not something that people will forget 10 minutes later. A climb can be done in more a documentary fashion also which just chronicles an event - but it can still be done in an interesting way that tells a story.
Just a few things to think about.
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altelis
Oct 27, 2011, 10:14 PM
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naitch wrote: Lastly something that hasn't been mentioned and I talk to my son about (and he's the professional videographer), is that it needs to tell a story. There are plenty of video's out there that just show someone's latest/greatest send - especially in the bouldering world. And that's OK, but if it can tell a story then it will be more interesting and memorable and not something that people will forget 10 minutes later. A climb can be done in more a documentary fashion also which just chronicles an event - but it can still be done in an interesting way that tells a story. Just a few things to think about.
I think you nailed what was really lacking in this video. The other comments about captions, or multiple angles, really all build up to the fact that this video at its core lacked a story.
You relied on captions to make up for the lack of story in the video.
Multiple angles help to allow you to tell a story.
Most of the sequences in climbing movies I like aren't just the send. They usually include failed attempts, the hike in, preparing for the climb (packing packs the night before, reviewing the topo, etc. etc)
Check out that short that was posted up a bit ago of Rands climbing at the Hulk...
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marc801
Oct 27, 2011, 10:50 PM
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altelis wrote: naitch wrote: Lastly something that hasn't been mentioned and I talk to my son about (and he's the professional videographer), is that it needs to tell a story. There are plenty of video's out there that just show someone's latest/greatest send - especially in the bouldering world. And that's OK, but if it can tell a story then it will be more interesting and memorable and not something that people will forget 10 minutes later. A climb can be done in more a documentary fashion also which just chronicles an event - but it can still be done in an interesting way that tells a story. Just a few things to think about. I think you nailed what was really lacking in this video. The other comments about captions, or multiple angles, really all build up to the fact that this video at its core lacked a story. You relied on captions to make up for the lack of story in the video. Multiple angles help to allow you to tell a story. Most of the sequences in climbing movies I like aren't just the send. They usually include failed attempts, the hike in, preparing for the climb (packing packs the night before, reviewing the topo, etc. etc) Check out that short that was posted up a bit ago of Rands climbing at the Hulk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGA1vI2HxTs
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