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Onlyoriginal
Aug 19, 2012, 9:22 AM
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I know what 5.12a and 5.12b and how that grading usually works....but where does for example, 5.12+ or 5.11+ come in?
Is a 5.11+ in between a 5.11 and 5.11a?
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jt512
Aug 19, 2012, 2:02 PM
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Onlyoriginal wrote: I know what 5.12a and 5.12b and how that grading usually works....but where does for example, 5.12+ or 5.11+ come in? Is a 5.11+ in between a 5.11 and 5.11a?
In guidebooks "5.11" usually means that all the guidebook author doesn't know the letter subgrade of the route, but occasionally means mid-5.11. "5.11+" means that the route is at the higher end of the 5.11 scale—hard 5.11c or 5.11d.
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camhead
Aug 19, 2012, 2:21 PM
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As Jay said, a plus is roughly equal to a "d," or maybe a "c/d," and a minus is about the same as an "a," or maybe an "a/b" A number grade with neither is usually somewhere in the "b/c" range, and usually just called "solid," as in "solid 5.12."
Also, in my experience (both in guidebooks and just carg conversation), plus/minus grades usually come up more in discussions of trad climbs, whereas detailed letter subgrades show up more for sport routes.
The Indian Creek guidebook uses no letters; only minus/solid/plus. In this case, it is because the more openness of this system is more conducive to the fluid nature of crack ratings. For someone with big hands, Excuse Station may be 11c, for someone with smaller hands, it may be 11b, so it simply gets 5.11, for most people it is not easy 11, but its not hard 11 either.
Confused yet?
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areyoumydude
Aug 19, 2012, 3:15 PM
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Jim Bridwell came up with the letter grades while blazing on acid in the valley back in the day.
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 19, 2012, 7:21 PM
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Onlyoriginal wrote: I know what 5.12a and 5.12b and how that grading usually works....but where does for example, 5.12+ or 5.11+ come in? Is a 5.11+ in between a 5.11 and 5.11a?
The "+" means you're about to be sandbagged.
Josh
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patto
Aug 19, 2012, 8:25 PM
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Ahhh 
Ewbank >> Yosemite Decimal System
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 20, 2012, 2:31 AM
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The + when attached to a grade of 5.10 and under is an indication of a sandbag. If the date of the FA preceds1990 a + is a gaurentee of a sandbag. one grade that os fairly consistant is 5.9+ it is usually harder than 10a. 10a can be a one move wonder or several one moves but 9+ needs to be sustained to make the 9+ grade ymmv
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guangzhou
Aug 21, 2012, 6:22 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Onlyoriginal wrote: I know what 5.12a and 5.12b and how that grading usually works....but where does for example, 5.12+ or 5.11+ come in? Is a 5.11+ in between a 5.11 and 5.11a? The "+" means you're about to be sandbagged. Josh
Especially if the route was established in the 60s or 70s
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healyje
Aug 21, 2012, 7:03 AM
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Well, to be fair, bitd when 5.10, 5.11 and then 5.12 became the top free climbing grades most folks were relatively hesitant to rate their new FAs at those top grades so a lot of climbs got called 5.9/.10/.11+ as a result. Point being a lot of what appears to be 'sandbagging' in hindsight wasn't really in any way intentional so much as folks just being circumspect about claiming new climbs at those grades.
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bearbreeder
Aug 21, 2012, 8:19 AM
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ratings are very subjective ...the +/- can allow for interpretation depending on yr body type, etc ...
i mean does it really make sense to have for example 10a vs. 10b ... i can show you many climbs where the former is harder than the latter depending on yr body type/style ... 10- IMO covers it better ...
i usually quote grades by +/- instead of letter grades these days ...
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 21, 2012, 11:25 AM
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Sandbagger
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Kartessa
Aug 21, 2012, 1:11 PM
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Rather than quote +/-, I like to explain it as "And then some" or "Not Quite"
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