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Stone0826
Jun 23, 2013, 4:53 PM
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Registered: Nov 9, 2012
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So I'm curious, if the climber were to fall wouldn't the first piece of pro get an outward or upward pull? Is it not wise to use a passive piece of gear as your first piece? Or is it ok? I understand that if you stood directly under the first piece it wouldn't exert any odd pulls, but just for the sake of wondering, is this a potential problem?
Thanks
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bearbreeder
Jun 23, 2013, 5:40 PM
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Registered: Feb 2, 2009
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it can ...
and its generally a good idea to put in a cam or opposed piece pretty soon when you can ...
but for the first piece, the reality is you get what fits best, dont place a cam where a nut will fit better ... as your looking at a grounder if it fails
those who scream "always get a cam for your first piece or yr UNSAFE UNSAFE UNSAFE" generally havent climbed and fallen enough except on the intrawebs ....
its ultimately a judgement call
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Colinhoglund
Jun 23, 2013, 9:41 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: it can ... and its generally a good idea to put in a cam or opposed piece pretty soon when you can ... but for the first piece, the reality is you get what fits best, dont place a cam where a nut will fit better ... as your looking at a grounder if it fails those who scream "always get a cam for your first piece or yr UNSAFE UNSAFE UNSAFE" generally havent climbed and fallen enough except on the intrawebs .... its ultimately a judgement call
Sound advice, generally try and place a cam or a really well placed nut as your first piece to avoid zippering your gear in a fall. (a really well placed nut will hold some outward force) Penny lane in squamish comes to mind, the first good piece is a small nut until the main crack. Always and never are bad words to use in the climbing world.
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jacques
Jun 24, 2013, 1:05 PM
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Registered: May 14, 2008
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Stone0826 wrote: So I'm curious, if the climber were to fall wouldn't the first piece of pro get an outward or upward pull?
What you describe is a zipper effect. It is not just the first piece who is at risk, but every sudden change in direction. As one of the characteristic of placing pro is to place it in the direction of a fall...using a stopper or a cam make no differences. The problem here is that the rope-drag pull the protection in an other direction than the fall. In the old time, we use to say that the cam pop out as they rotate out of the crack,
With the grigri, the job of the second is limited, but zipper effect is easy to see from the bottom and the job of the second is to warn his leader when he see a zipper effect situation. I don't know why I say old safety trick, because safety is always actual, but an opposition nuts are often used to solve the problem. The problem to tie the opposition nuts and the different knots use on a sling are important to the safety. As a bolt is multi directional, those who don't like the mental analysis of assuming his safety will propose "place a bolt" or, less safe, to always use a cam, but the problem of zipper effect was solve before most of you was born
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