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clundin_99
Jan 27, 2003, 6:02 PM
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When I go climbing, I like to sport climb. But no one has ever told me what to do when you get to the bolts at the top. If I want to get all of my quickdraws back, what do you do? Do you just feed the rope through the bolts and then rappell down like a top rope? Help please!
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apolobamba
Jan 27, 2003, 6:11 PM
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Clip into the anchors and rappell off.
Do not lower off the anchors like a top rope. Overtime lowering off grinds the anchors down and then they have to be replaced.
If you want to top rope it, put make an achor out of your gear.
Have Fun
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mountainmonkey
Jan 27, 2003, 6:12 PM
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whatever you do, DO NOT TOPROPE THROUGH THE ANCHORS. (unless they are quick links that can easily be replaced)
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mauriceb
Jan 27, 2003, 6:18 PM
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Chris - It is a long process to explain but I'll paraphrase from the How to Rock Climb! book
- Anchor yourself to the bolts (girth hitched slings and/or daisy chain, lockers)
- Double check that you are anchored
- Ask belayer to give you plenty of slack
- Pull up 10-15 slack and tie overhand, fig8 on bight in rope you've just pulled up
- Clip this knot to extra biner/quickdraw (ensures that you don't drop the rope)
- Triple check that you are anchored in
- Untie your original tie in knot
- Feed knot through rap rings and retie fig8 to your harness
- Untie extra overhand/fig8 that is tied in slack
- Have belayer take in all slack
- Check again to make sure rope runs from the belayer, thru rap rings to you
- Double check again that belayer has taken out all slack and you are weighting the rope
- Remove slings and locker you were using to anchor yourself adn tell belayer to lower away
If I've forgotten anything someone will fill in the blanks. Rapping as opposed to lowering is essentially same except you set up rappell. In my limited experience, lowering vs rapping is a personal preference and dictated by local custom at climbing area.
If you are setting up a TR, do not TR through rap rings, quicklinks, etc. Use your own gear
maurice
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cracklover
Jan 27, 2003, 6:35 PM
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What maurice said was fine, all except for lowering off the bolts. Do not do this. Rappel. It's no more difficult. Simply put the rope through the hangers (or chains, or quicklinks, or whatever), center of the rope at the anchor, insuring that both ends of the rope are on the ground, and then set up your rappel, unclip your gear, and rap down.
If you lower off the fixed gear, you will wear through it. This has been discussed numerous times (even on this very thread!). Unless you plan to donate the time, expense, and knowledge to replace the anchors, don't lower off them.
GO
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flynnypek
Jan 27, 2003, 9:42 PM
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If you haven't done this before... do it on the gym first!!!!!
I agree with all of what you guys have said but don't forget this is your life we are talking about.
Do this on the gym being watch by someone experienced!
The process is not difficult and above, you have pretty good descriptions of what has to be done (I agree on rappel from the bolts) but please do it with someone watching you and telling you what has to be done.
When you are new to this and you are nervious because you are from a pretty high spot that you haven't been before, it is easy to forget what to do...
my advice... do it next to someone who is checking what you're doing... afterwards you'll be able to do it yourself.
See you on the rocks.
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sprocket
Jan 27, 2003, 9:55 PM
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You stand up and yell..I did it.hahah
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mesomorf
Jan 27, 2003, 10:14 PM
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Quote:Unless you plan to donate the time, expense, and knowledge to replace the anchors, don't lower off them.
[with link to donations.php on this site]
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but donating to rockclimbing.com does nothing toward replacement of anchors.
Donate to the American Safe Climbing Association if you want to give toward anchor replacement.
(later) Oh, I get it! Whenever you say donate, you're automatically linked to donations.php. Except this time...
[ This Message was edited by: mesomorf on 2003-01-27 14:18 ]
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quickclips
Jan 27, 2003, 10:28 PM
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the only thing mauriceb left out was to clip the new knot you tied to your belay loop. I have a question though. How do you attach rap rings to the top, and leave them up there? I don't want to leave my draws or biners up there? Or would getting steel screw gate links from the hardwear store?
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flynnypek
Jan 28, 2003, 2:42 PM
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There should be already up there... and if not, you can get them on a hardware store.
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mustclimb69
Jan 28, 2003, 2:53 PM
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You could set up a hangingbelay and have your partner clean the route then topout and camp on top, enjoying the view.
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tigerbythetail
Jan 28, 2003, 3:15 PM
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Maybe since you've only been climbing for a few months you should TAKE A CLASS!!!
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kevlar
Jan 30, 2003, 7:10 PM
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celebrate....
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zapata
Jan 31, 2003, 12:36 AM
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maurice has explained it pretty well. Like he said TRIPLE check everything you do. It's VERY important, once you're secure, to make sure your rope is always tied to something!!! Nothing quite as exciting as dropping your rope....
A nice thing to have stuck on your harness, in case the chains are rusted to hell or the bolts aren't rap bolts, is a couple of nice HUGE quick links, the ones you screw shut, from the hardware store. I can't remember what size to get...anyone remember?
After saying all that....There's quite a few different ways people set up anchors so you'll have to learn different methods. Someone said 'take a course', do it. They've been trained to do it right and have not learned by trial and error. That $100-150 day course could save your life.
zap
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misha
Feb 3, 2003, 1:39 AM
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jump
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foolry
Feb 3, 2003, 2:38 AM
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obviously none of the people that are so against lowering have ever had the testicular fortitude to do a REALLY overhung route. As the route approaches horizontal for any distance it becomes nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get your gear back if you rappel.
A note to the afforementioned: Get up off your lazy 5.8 scraping a$$es and do some serious climbing!
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one900johnnyk
Feb 3, 2003, 3:05 AM
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cool it bud i think they meant lowering off the bolts themselves directly...
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jughead
Mar 16, 2003, 12:38 AM
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Contrary to popular belief DO lower off the bolts unless: they are petzl bolts (which they shouldn't be) If they are two staples then do as maurice said pasing the rope through the staples if its a chain with a bull ring type thing on it pass the rope through that. oh yea and...
DUDE TAKE A CLASS!!!!!!!! learn from people who have been taught properly not from the internet you don't know anything about them and whether or not they're just takin the piss (no offence too anyone here) But would you trust someone who learnt everthing he knows from the juinor encyclopedia of rock climbing from ladybird?!? NO!!!
Take classes then read the books and learn from friends DONT JUST DO A BOOK!!! the pictures of knots and what not were most likly drawn by a non-climbing illustrator geting paid £4:50 an hour to draw a knot from the description of some dude who has enough money to publish a book!
I can climb at a higher grade than the auther of the climbers handbook(dunno his name) and I'm crap!!!
CLASSES THEN BOOKS!!! I CAN'T EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH!!!
GOODNIGHT!!!
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w6jxm
Mar 16, 2003, 1:49 AM
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I'd like to second jughead. There is nothing morally wrong about lowering off of the anchors if that is what they are for. Now granted, you would not want to lower or sometimes even rapel off some bolt hangers cause they will chew up your rope and spit it out. If you are toproping, then most denfinatly set your own anchors, but for a one time climb, the wear and tear on the gear is not enough to make it a liability. As for cleaning an overhanging route, forget about rapelling. Lowering is the only way to go.
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daisuke
Mar 16, 2003, 1:59 PM
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have someone show you, there is no better way, and while he/she is at it have them show you how to set up an anchor on 2 bolts with some slings too.
D
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ambler
Mar 16, 2003, 5:04 PM
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I'm surprised this hasn't been said here: the real answer is, IT DEPENDS.
Are you climbing with other people, who want to toprope or pinkpoint the pitch? If so AND IF the pitch is less than half the length of your rope (CHECK THIS; a big knot or a tied-in belayer at the other end are good backups too) -- then simply clip the rope through your own locking or opposed carabiners at the anchors (for example, a pair of opposed quickdraws, or a pair of runners with locking carabiners) and have your belayer lower you off.
After your lead, is the gang moving on to something else? Then you have two choices:
* Rap off, as described by cracklover. Clean your draws on rappel. This causes no wear on the anchors, and should be straightforward unless the route overhangs or traverses significantly. For many sport routes it's the best choice.
* If rappelling is undesirable due to roofs or traverses, then you might have to lower off as described by mauriceb. The problem with lowering directly off anchor hardware is not that it's "morally wrong" as w6jxm oddly puts it, but that it wears hardware out faster which reduces strength and creates a need for expensive, time-consuming replacements, usually made by someone with a stronger community conscience. That said, sometimes (as foorlry brags) lowering off anchors is the best available choice.
Finally, a note about rope length. It's easy to get lulled into the assumption that you can lower off any sport climb with a single rope. Many accidents (and perhaps hundreds of near-accidents) have resulted when this assumption proved false. Belayers have seen the end of the rope slip through their hands, letting the leader crash down on hard talus. Check and, when necessary, use a second rope to set up your rappel or lower-off.
How to toprope on a setup with two ropes tied together deserves another thread of its own (probably there are already several). In general, leading even one-pitch sport climbs calls for the ability to make judgments, responding flexibly to the situation at hand -- we need to know more than a few rules about "always do this."
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mcfoley
Mar 16, 2003, 6:06 PM
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you stated that when you go climbing, you like to go sport climbing... and you want to know how to get your draws back??? So really what your saying is that you TOP ROPE at a sport climbing area... but DON'T actually climb SPORT...sound right???
Anyway, go buy a daisy chain... and an 2 extra locking biners.
If the top anchors have "SHUTS" (???) just clip the rope through them...lower off!!!
If there are just rings or chains the you need to do this:
1)clip your daisy to a hangar or part of the "anchor"
2)take a "bight" (sp?) of rope and feed it through to chains/rings
3)tie the loop of rope you just fed through, into an 8 on a bight
4)clip this to your belay loop
5)double check EVERYTHING!!!
6)unclip your daisy, and untie your original knot
7)clean it!!!
8)DONATE $$$ to the ACCESS FUND so you are able to climb there next year
9)pick up all the frickin' trash on the trail on your way out!!!
THIS SYSTEM IS VERY EASY AND REDUNDANT IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!! BE SAFE!!!
also see http://www.petzl.com/...ch/html/rappel3.html
edited for url attachment
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easysteve
Mar 17, 2003, 12:24 AM
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Untie and jump.
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