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lazide
Jan 30, 2003, 5:53 PM
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Seems like for the larger sizes (>= orange), the money might be better spent on cheaper cams with the same range. Just how often IS an alien in that size the only thing that will go?
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sspssp
Jan 30, 2003, 6:13 PM
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Well
I suppose a lot depends on where you climb. I have a full set of Aliens and I use them all. They work well in the irregular granite cracks
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epic_ed
Jan 30, 2003, 7:00 PM
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I also have the full range of Aliens (and then some), but find that the larger two aren't my favorite for their size. The cam head is awfully narrow and that makes them less stable than a Camelot or almost any other cam in that range. Sizes red and down -- nothing better regardless of the route/type of climbing in my opinion. Orange is my cut off point with the Aliens. Sometimes the orange is perfect. Other times I'm wishing I had another .75 Camelot.
Ed
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antimatter
Jan 30, 2003, 7:15 PM
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Hmm, yeah true, the larger Aliens do have a narrower profile than Friends/Camalots/etc. However, they do hold just fine and can fit in spaces where a wider cam will not. I've got some overlap in my rack at that point so I have either option. However, I'd keep the Aliens over the wider pieces if I had to give up one or the other.
[ This Message was edited by: antimatter on 2003-01-30 11:19 ]
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lazide
Jan 30, 2003, 7:25 PM
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What I was curious about was how often you run across a placement that ONLY a large alien will fit. Seems like most cracks large enough to need the larger aliens (white, etc) would be wide enough another cam would fit in just fine.
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pbjosh
Jan 30, 2003, 7:26 PM
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I generally prefer camalots or tech friends over aliens for white and purple (more stable). I prefer Metolius TCUs over aliens for blue and black and green (narrower, work better in pockets and funky placements). The yellow, orange and red aliens are awesome however. The little ones are great too, but are actually wider / harder to fit into weird places than the TCUs (climb at jtree enough and you'll believe me). The larger ones are the narrowest in their size range which is good and bad - a bit less stable but occaisonally the only thing that will fit. That having been said I don't have them and won't buy them.
Here's my list of most useful alien sizes, ranked top to bottom:
hybrid yellow/green
hybrid green/blue
yellow
red
orange
hybrid blue/black
black
hybrid red/yellow
green
blue
purple
white
josh
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iamthewallress
Jan 30, 2003, 10:25 PM
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I borrow my bfs big ones (orange and larger) for aid climbing only. The flexible stems can be nice and add stability when you know that you're going to be standing on less than straight up-and-down placements...especially if you're only getting good contact w/ 2 or 3 of the cam heads. (FWIW, my flexi-friends have really deformed from being used in this way although they'll probably still hold you that way in a fall.)
Cheap cams usually perform like cheap junk in my paws. I'd rather spend the same cash on fewer decent cams (Aliens or Camalots).
My final 2 cents worth...The blue/black less useful than the orange. Pshaw! You climbin' on standstone? The hybrids are the bomb at the tiny end b/c of the narrow cam range! My faves for pin scarred granite easy trade routes:
Green/Yellow
Yellow
Green
Blue/Black
Blue
Blue/Green
Red
Red/Yellow
Black
Orange and up...
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atg200
Jan 30, 2003, 10:35 PM
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i have found boxed out pins scars where orange aliens work, but nothing wider. the trango flexcams also have narrow heads, and i prefer them in the sizes above orange aliens. i couldn´t disagree more asbout tru´s being better for much of anything - nine times out of ten i prefer the alien.
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philbox
Moderator
Jan 30, 2003, 11:16 PM
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The larger sized Aliens are invaluable for climbing some of the cliffs around here. I love all my Aliens and don`t have a bad word to say about any of em.
...Phil...
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spike
Jan 31, 2003, 2:12 AM
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hi lazide,
I used to only have aliens up to the yellow.
Last season I added the red and orange --- they work great in shallow pods/blown out piton scars in Zion. I mix them up with my .75 and 1" Camalots to give me more options when placing gear.
Richard / SPIKE
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pbjosh
Jan 31, 2003, 2:50 AM
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Quote:
i have found boxed out pins scars where orange aliens work, but nothing wider.
I've found many orange and red alien placements like these. The red metolius TCU (#4) fits in some of these places as well but I generally don't like this piece, kinda big for just 3 lobes.
Quote:
i couldn´t disagree more asbout tru´s being better for much of anything - nine times out of ten i prefer the alien.
Depends on what you're climbing. A lot of the time the Aliens in the smallest sizes (blue, blue/black and black) are too wide and are too difficult to get into a deep, weird, thin, grainy crack or weird pinscar and a TCU with it's narrower head (and thinner ends to the head, where the U-stem connecters are) can be wiggled in more successfully.
To Melissa re: blue/black vs. orange - it all depends. At jtree there are a lot of orange and red alien sized pockets, and I get a lot of use out of my hybrids as well, hard to call but similarly good stuff
josh
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crack_head
Jan 31, 2003, 3:35 AM
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i like the BD camaolts more than the 2 larger sizes of aliens. but hate the small camalots!?
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passthepitonspete
Jan 31, 2003, 4:41 PM
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Aliens are well-known to be ETS for aid because of their single cable connection which creates enormous degrees of freedom and hence reduces the bending moment of the placement.
This means they hold better in strange positions.
They are, however, not quite as strong as other cams. If you are using them for free climbing, and plan to take whippers on them, I'd rather have a TCU. Most likely on free climbs you are climbing a natural crack which tends to accept TCU's better than the piton scars you frequently have to use on aid routes.
This being said, by the time you get up to the 1" sizes, while the Aliens are nice, I wouldn't spend extra money to have them.
In fact, I haven't. You can click here to see a complete list of all the gear I own and how I use it. You'll find the Aliens on page 2. The biggest I own are the yellow-red Hybrids.
If you are aid climbing in Yosemite, you should not leave the ground without at least a double set of Hybrid Aliens up to this size.
I am Old School, meaning I have been climbing for twenty-five years.
[Note: This does not make me old per se. I may be able to produce a hottie or two to verify this. And if not, I can tell you with truth that I am frequently asked to provide ID when buying beer, at least on a good day!]
At any rate, I still have some vintage Forged Friends on my rack that are circa 1980. They work fine, thank you very much. Forged Friends from 2" on up are cheap, and they work. They belong in your quiver for those two reasons. They do not have flexible stems, so you need to put an old school tie-off loop through the hole in the stem and clip it [in]addition to the sling!] in horizontal placements.
They have started making them again, and they are cheap! Highly recommended by Dr. Piton.
And I'll tell ya this, mate: once you're up to around two inches, in my opinion, "a cam is pretty much a cam."
Flexible stems are nice, and it pays to have a few like that, though you can frequently get by with stiffies.
The extra camming range of Camalots are nice from time to time, but if you're an aid climber, you should have plenty of cams anyway.
Best advice - a few different kinds of each. Sometimes a Camalot will fit where a Friend or HB Quadcam won't, and vice versa.
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copperhead
Jan 31, 2003, 7:09 PM
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I used to think that Aliens beyond the red size were not useful… until I bought an orange one. Now I wish I had a second orange, a purple, and a white. CCH should make red/orange hybrids – now THAT would be cool! (I know, WC makes offset TFs, but they are too wide.) The larger Aliens are great for shallow placements, due to their internal cam-spring design that makes them narrower.
I rarely use the black size because of its minimal camming range – any expansion of the crack will most likely spit out the unit. One time, while trying to climb a small, delicate flake, I resorted to a little trick. The flake was thin and expanding; I first tried a black Alien but didn’t like the looks of the placement, due to the nature of the flake (the flake was too delicate to accept a pin at my level, but would above). I had to place a #5 LA above and knew that it would expand the flake and spit out the Alien. I ended up tapping the tip of a ˝” baby angle into the flake (barely) next to the Alien placement. This expanded the flake enough so that I could place a blue/black instead, and then remove the angle. I carefully placed the Arrow above and the Alien held.
The double-axle design and greater camming range of the Camalots works ‘most excellently’ for wild flares and is way better than the standard single axle design in such situations – trust me. My original rigid-stems pretty much sit in storage.
Aliens rule; Hybrids are almost ‘cheating’.
Happy camming.
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rprp
Jan 31, 2003, 9:42 PM
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I use the larger size Aliens a lot. It is rare that they are the only thing that goes. But I often like the placement I get with them better than that of a different cam in the same size. I've moved from using mostly Camalots to using more big Aliens. I like their weight and greater flex.
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alpnclmbr1
Jan 31, 2003, 10:50 PM
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silver and purple TCU
I find them easier to place and visually see the cam placements then the samll aliens
green to red aliens
I own the larger aliens but don't carry them on a free rack. Had problems with them walking.
camalots and jr's for the rest
tech friends for a third set
dmm cams for alpine
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evoltobmilc
Feb 7, 2003, 5:54 AM
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Registered: Feb 6, 2003
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I've got a full set of aliens (no hybrids though , but they're definitely my next addition to my rack.) I LOVE ALIENS. They're super bomber, even for free climbing. In addition to my aliens I have a #3 and #4 Camalot. If you do go with the full set of aliens, you'd definitely want to have a #2 camalot, as well, to cover the range better. Once in a while there's a placement that I can't make with the #3 or the White Alien. If I had to buy my rack all over again, I'd go with Aliens from Black to Orange, and Camalots from there up. I'd also try to double up on certain sizes.
Around Boulder I tend to place the Red a LOT. In the Valley the Yellow was just like it's color: PURE GOLD. I always backcleaned the last yellow alien I had on my rack cause I knew that there'd be another placement higher up on the pitch. Yellow, Red, and Green are my favorite Aliens.
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skywalker
Feb 8, 2003, 10:42 PM
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I like black through orange. Hybrids are sweet! Anything bigger seems unstable. The bigger ones probably work well in piton holes but tricams work well too and are way cheaper.
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karlbaba
Feb 9, 2003, 5:34 AM
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The red one is great in certain angle scars. On first four pitches of the Nose for instance, you either get bomber red aliens or make a dicey placement of something else.
I don't have bigger than a Red alien but I know some 25 year wall veterns who carry the bigger ones and are happy with em. I'm just a big cheap to buy more new cams, particularly since I like camalots just fine.
Peace
karl
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