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hugepedro
May 6, 2003, 3:30 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In my opinion, left and right are blurred somewhat in the US these days as the mainstream Democratic and Republican positions have moved closer together. Wow, Curt, interesting perspective. I've thought for some time that our government was becoming more bi-partisan. But then, VT Senator Patrick Leahy moved from Republican to Democrat, so that would make sense. But there still seems to be so much devisiveness in Congress, a real "us v. them" mentality. Am I simply reading it wrong? Well of course there is still a good deal of positioning going on between the parties, in order to gain political advantage. What I was referring to was that the mainstream philosophies of the Democratic and Republican parties both seem to be moving to the center of the political spectrum. This does not mean that there are not fringe elements of both parties who are diametrically opposed in philosophy--only that the basic platforms of the parties are becoming increasingly similar. Curt
I agree with Curt. The parties are moving closer to the center. They have to. They are both being funded by essentially the same people/corporations, it's no surprise that their motivations are becoming like. There is fighting on the fringe, always will be, but I think most of the pitched divisiveness is due to the fact that most of them are now fighting over the same ground more than trying to occupy different ground. It's like a game of king of the mountain.
On the religious discussion . . . I was raised a very fundamentalist Christian, but as I grew older I found so many logical holes in that belief system that I couldn't buy into it. I know a lot of people make it work for them, and that's cool with me, just doesn't work for me. Now I've got my own religion. I've found that trying to have a logical discussion about religion is usually fruitless - it's a topic that doesn't lend itself well to logical reasoning. And, unless each party can accept that the other's spiritual practice is completely valid for them, and won't cause them to go to hell, you won't find much common ground. It's an inherent nature of most doctrines that you will go to hell if you don't believe the right things, so how can it be possible to accept the belief system of another? Not very, in most cases.
Cheers,
Peter
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bakedjake
May 6, 2003, 3:35 PM
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In reply to: AND, it once again goes back to an extremely personal relationship with our idea of God/Creator/Great Spirit. There really is no need to have a "middle-man." The Creator is all-seeing and all-knowing and, as you've pointed out, "gets it" without our even verbalizing it. The process of confession is a man-made tool to entice people to take responsibility. Those with a strong Conscience really don't need that tool because their faith and knowledge carries them directly into a conversation with The Creator.
I'm with ya dude!!! Financing of world religions ceates a self perpetuating cycle. Middleman now eliminated.... the peeps start meditating on what self and god are.
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calamity_chk
May 6, 2003, 3:56 PM
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hmm, okay. i'll try to keep my abstract god-loving mumbo jumbo as clean as possible, but my personal faith is mostly based on the god the father metaphor. (notice the use of the adjective, "personal" .. i could care less about trying to convert people to my belief system.)
anyways, i strongly believe that God/Creator or whatever you want to call this spiritual entity has a parental (not paternal, but parental) quality to it. i believe that this essence wants us to be happy and live fulfilling lives, and i believe that we have attached human qualities to God in an attempt to understand something that is mostly beyond comprehension. i do not believe that i will have a one-way ticket to hell if i forget confessions, question my faith, or even sin a little. personally, i think the provisions of forgiveness are there for our sake more than anything else, and i believe that the concept of sin is based mostly on our (human) systems of reward and punishment.
i struggle with believing in hell because a) the god that i know is not a vengeful god and b) i believe that sin is payed out on earth. for example, i had premarital sex and got pregnant. i have suffered lots of emotional stress because of this. i have committed other sins and have suffered the consequences - i learned my lesson, why should i have to repay a debt that's already cleared?
finally, i honestly dont worry about what happens to people with no faith. i have a solid faith that i enjoy questioning and exploring, and because i consider faith to be such a personal decision, i dont see any reason that i should bother people about theirs -- except in theoretical discussions like this.
amber
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atg200
May 6, 2003, 4:02 PM
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i was mostly just stirring the pot because of dixieclimber's ridiculous comment about christianity's obvious superiority. i really don't much care what anyone else's religion is - i just hate seeing opinion presented as fact go unopposed.
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bakedjake
May 6, 2003, 4:16 PM
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Boy oh boy... start on religion and the peeps come crawling out of the woodwork.
I always thought we were pretty much alone here and we can make this existance a paradise/heaven or we can make it a hell.
I always thought it rather extravagant thinking to assume we have some place in a spiritual heirarchy and everlasting life.
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bumblie
May 6, 2003, 6:25 PM
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In this case, there are two different left/right scales.
The horizonal one has to do with economy. Far to the right has to do with a free market economy - let the market seek it's own level and ideally, equilibrium. Unfortunately, this frequently leads to the exploitation of labor. To the left you have communistic leanings. Everyone works for the common good. Tax the wealthy to care for the less fortunate. No one will live in poverty. Unfortunately, when applied on a large scale, this kills motivation or initiative.
The vertical scale relates to freedoms. On the top (or the right) you have authoritarianism - everyone tows the line. This is similar to being in the military. It's good for armies, but lousy for societies. The other end of the scale is absolute freedom to do as you wish with no restrictions - anarchy.
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dixieclimber
May 6, 2003, 7:04 PM
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In reply to: i was mostly just stirring the pot because of dixieclimber's ridiculous comment about christianity's obvious superiority. i really don't much care what anyone else's religion is - i just hate seeing opinion presented as fact go unopposed. |
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wishiwaswest
May 6, 2003, 7:04 PM
Post #109 of 170
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economic left/right 1.75
Authoritarian/libertatrian -2.92
*No one* was on my side of the chart on the test results and just a couple of you on Juliana's chart. So what does *that* mean. I'm a right wing anarchist? I think I need to think about this.
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dixieclimber
May 6, 2003, 7:20 PM
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^^ I think you are probably somewhere around Tony Blair.
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shortfatoldguy
May 6, 2003, 8:11 PM
Post #111 of 170
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In reply to: economic left/right 1.75 Authoritarian/libertatrian -2.92 *No one* was on my side of the chart on the test results and just a couple of you on Juliana's chart. So what does *that* mean. I'm a right wing anarchist? I think I need to think about this. |
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wishiwaswest
May 6, 2003, 8:26 PM
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They'll have to do it before I get *moldy*. Maybe Bill Gates will shelter me in part of his house and I can run amok from there. I wonder what he would score on that test?
Did anyone give me Seattle info in my no adoption thread? I've been in a celebratory alcoholic haze for the past few days. Better go check.
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matttheripper
May 6, 2003, 9:22 PM
Post #113 of 170
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Economic left/right -2.62
Authoritarian/Libertarian -1.98
I enjoyed this test.
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beercanclimber
May 6, 2003, 9:32 PM
Post #114 of 170
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Economic Left/Right: -3.25
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -4.05
can't say that i'm suprised by my own results of that of the majority of people here who've taken it.
i think this is gonna be fun later when i can look at flame wars and better understand who is trolling who and why.
wheres niceporch, we gotta get that snot in on this :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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extrememountaineer
May 7, 2003, 1:16 AM
Post #115 of 170
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True Christianity is that spoken of in the Bible, i.e."Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved", "Not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to his MERCY he saved us", "Whosoever believeth in Him shall have everlasting life"...etc. Catholicism is NOT that Christianity. It may have started off that way but has degenerated into a bunch of man-made rituals, etc that are not Biblically required. Do not equate the Roman catholic church with true Christianity. There can be Christians that are members of the Catholic Church, or Baptist, etc. But being a true Christian is about one's relationship with God, NOT about what some man-made religion tells that person his relationship with God has to be.
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clmbng_addict
May 7, 2003, 3:10 AM
Post #116 of 170
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Is the dude in your signature w/ the semi-automatic also christian?
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extrememountaineer
May 7, 2003, 3:19 AM
Post #117 of 170
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Nope...that guy is just a smilie.
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thomasribiere
May 7, 2003, 11:02 AM
Post #118 of 170
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smiling and shooting :?
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dixieclimber
May 8, 2003, 12:39 AM
Post #119 of 170
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In reply to: smiling and shooting :? |
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thomasribiere
May 8, 2003, 10:02 AM
Post #120 of 170
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I have poo in the closet. But I'm not a christian.
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jhwnewengland
May 8, 2003, 7:39 PM
Post #121 of 170
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Economic Left/Right: -4.75
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -7.95
Cool test!
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petsfed
May 9, 2003, 3:48 PM
Post #122 of 170
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In fact, if you want to talk high philosophy, any religion that requires good works, rituals, or even a deep faith in heaven, is in fact nihilistic. It diverts our attention away from living a good life here on earth and causes us to always look to the clouds. Keeping in mind that heaven may not even exist, this is a major negation of life. It begs the question, why would god want us to not appreciate his creation but instead appreciate a heaven we have never seen?.
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bakedjake
May 9, 2003, 3:53 PM
Post #123 of 170
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In reply to: In fact, if you want to talk high philosophy, any religion that requires good works, rituals, or even a deep faith in heaven, is in fact nihilistic. It diverts our attention away from living a good life here on earth and causes us to always look to the clouds. Keeping in mind that heaven may not even exist, this is a major negation of life. It begs the question, why would god want us to not appreciate his creation but instead appreciate a heaven we have never seen?. |
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bumblie
May 9, 2003, 4:49 PM
Post #124 of 170
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In reply to: In fact, if you want to talk high philosophy, any religion that requires good works, rituals, or even a deep faith in heaven, is in fact nihilistic.
The language sounds vaguely familiar, but it's been quite a while since I partook of the fungi.
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bakedjake
May 9, 2003, 4:50 PM
Post #125 of 170
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oooohh!!! big news.. I have an interview Sunday!!!!!!!!! wish me luck :D
edited; oops!!!! wrong thread.. just ignore this post
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