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farmgirl
May 20, 2003, 9:19 PM
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Okay, I need your help...I was climbing Sunday with Rckjk, whom I love with all my heart, when a hold he was on broke sending a few rocks my way. He yelled a warning, I ducked, but one of the blasted things nailed my arm anyway. I couldn't climb out of the canyon on my own, so he quickly set up an anchor and pulled me out...geez talk about adrenaline turning a guy into superman. So here's where I need your help...the poor guy is really suffering...thinking he was at fault. I've tried the old adage "climbing is an inherently dangerous sport..blah, blah, blah", but to no avail. So reassure him. PLEASE, especially you guys who have climbed with him. else he may never let me climb under him again...literally, philosophically, or carnally. Thanks.
Pam
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cerikpete
May 20, 2003, 9:21 PM
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Don't know if this will help, since none of you know me... but at the NRP gathering a few months ago, Charley was climbing a route when a huge hold broke off. Fortunately it missed his belayer, but no one was at fault. Sometimes rock breaks, nothing can be done about it. Just remember to wear a helmet, even while belaying.
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arrettinator
May 20, 2003, 9:34 PM
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One time a friend was climbing and a chunk of rock the size of a small duffle bag broke off in his hands. Luckily he was a frickin ox and held on to it and his belayer was tied in. She lowered him down, while suspended in the air between the tree and him (he outweighed her by almost 80lbs already). He keeps the rock on his mantle above his fireplace as a trophy and a reminder that it happens.
I once was bouldering and the rock broke off and I came down about 8ft onto my spotter. He was pretty banged up, but it happens.
There were some kids at the top of Beam Rocks rappelling. The one kid dropped a full 32oz Gatorade bottle down to his friend (standing right next to my belayer) and it almost hit him (my belayer that is). He was an ass (the kid) and got reamed out.
Rocks break. Gatorade should not be thrown off of 80' cliffs.
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w6jxm
May 20, 2003, 9:35 PM
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If you don't yell ROCK, and it hits then, then it is your fault. Otherwise, tell them just to get over it. Or you can go climb a rock and throw a rock down to make them feel its even :)
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hangerlessbolt
May 20, 2003, 9:40 PM
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In reply to: Okay, I need your help...I was climbing Sunday with Rckjk, whom I love with all my heart, when a hold he was on broke sending a few rocks my way. He yelled a warning, I ducked, but one of the blasted things nailed my arm anyway. I couldn't climb out of the canyon on my own, so he quickly set up an anchor and pulled me out...geez talk about adrenaline turning a guy into superman. So here's where I need your help...the poor guy is really suffering...thinking he was at fault. I've tried the old adage "climbing is an inherently dangerous sport..blah, blah, blah", but to no avail. So reassure him. PLEASE, especially you guys who have climbed with him. else he may never let me climb under him again...literally, philosophically, or carnally. Thanks. Pam
If I were ever in a predicament that required someone to haul me out…I would be thankful to be climbing with him (even if was because *he* pegged me with a rock)…*grin*…strong as an ox that guy.
By the way Ron, way to work that “damsel in distress” angle…even if you had to create the distress. ;-)
Worry not J.P. I’m sure he’ll be just fine. I’ll keep an eye on him.
-Rob
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thomasribiere
May 20, 2003, 10:04 PM
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any possibility to find a lawyer and prosecute the cliff?
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styndall
May 20, 2003, 10:11 PM
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In reply to: any possibility to find a lawyer and prosecute the cliff?
This is America. We'll find a way.
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dirtineye
May 20, 2003, 10:27 PM
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HEy I don't know either one of you, but you know rock fall is part of climbing.
There is a climb a friend of mine FAed in Georgia at Lost Wall called Party Rock, when he showed me the climb and told the story, he goes into this "and the whole damned thing pulled out and there is the party rock!", spiel, pointing to this huge rock on the ground that reportedly barely missed the belayer.
Look at it this way, you have a great broken hold story to tell. Another frined had his partner break a hold, ahd had to dodge it, and then he picked up hte brokend hold and it had a trilobite on the back! I swear this is true cause I saw the fossil, and this guy wouldn't have to make up climbing stories.
Point out to your pal that it could have been you breaking a hold on him. You'll probably laugh about this in the future.
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bumblie
May 21, 2003, 12:07 PM
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Rock fall is part of the game. Sounds like both of you did the right thing. Just a case of dumb luck.
Hope your arm is mending quickly.
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madriver
May 21, 2003, 12:52 PM
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......sue..
.....what....I live in D.C....what did you expect....!
MR 8)
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missedyno
May 21, 2003, 2:58 PM
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climb in potrero chico, you get used to rockfall.
just another reason to wear you helmet when belaying
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climbhigh23
May 21, 2003, 3:59 PM
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hey cerikpete - i think i was that belayer. falling rocks are a part of the game sometimes, wear a helmet....
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powrslave
May 21, 2003, 4:23 PM
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The floor of our local gym is made out of the leftover material that they make cheap sandals out of. We throw chunks of it on eachother as we are bouldering. "Watch out Rubber!" It really annoys them when they are doing well and then they get a big fat piece of rubber in the back of the head.
Not really related, but sorta.
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rockmx
May 21, 2003, 4:33 PM
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My Girlfriend drop a #4 Camalot and hit me on the heat, you can not imagine the pain, I did not lose control of the belay, We rap tree pitches to the ground and Hike 45 min to the car, and She drive 1 Hour to the Hospital, I love my Baby, she buy me a new 4 camalot and Petzl Helmet
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cerikpete
May 21, 2003, 7:32 PM
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In reply to: hey cerikpete - i think i was that belayer. falling rocks are a part of the game sometimes, wear a helmet....
Yup, it was you Brad.
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rendog
May 22, 2003, 2:37 PM
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Hey i live up here in the canadian rockies
We have a saying...
"If you find a good hold on the mountain face....put it in your pocket so you can take it home."
the rock fall up here can be HORRENDOUS...and some routes have to be done at certain times of the year with the stars and planets in complete alignment to be able to survive the rockfall.
It's this little nasty thing we call "gravity"... it affects us in all sorts of ways eg: old men/women...ever notice how much closer to the ground the skin under thier arms gets? and the hair moves from the top of the head to the nose and ears...gravity...most likely.
Unfortunaltely it affects the rock as well. So come on like you didn't wonder where all the rock at the bottom of the cliff came from..??? :P
at least you weren't hurt badly... :D
and if al else fails then I would have to go with w6jxm. hey tit for tat right??????? right???????????????
awwww come on people http://mindscraps.com/.../hmm3grin2orange.gif
"D"
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dingus
May 22, 2003, 2:54 PM
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Yes, fockfall is part of the sport. But the tone of everyone's response, that it happens and there's nothing you can do about it, seems a bit fatalistic to me. There's another side to the coin...
I have noted over the years that some climbers induce a lot more rockfall than others. Holds do break and I know I've had a few disintengrate beneath my loving touch. I holler "rock" and then berate myself for the poor judgement involved with using that particular hold.
I've climbed incredibly solid rock and had things break. Schitt does happen. I've also climbed choss piles and disturbed nary a gnat. Schitt can be prevented.
Some people move with the grace of a ballet dancer and the soft touch of a safecracker. They are aware of potential death bombs and take care to insure the lead rope will not dislodge missiles. Those folks rarely seem to knock off or cause rockfall. Others are as clumsy as Clydesdales. They are seemingly unaware of the path their lead line takes and repeatedly use questionable holds. They seem to induce more rockfall than your average bears.
If a regular partner makes a regular habit of sending rocks my way the regularity of our climbing arrangements will evolve. I don't like getting hit by rockfall. I figure it this way... if the leader hollers "Rock," my life is danger. Do that to me once too many times and I will start seeking to reduce that particular objective hazard.
DMT
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alpnclmbr1
May 26, 2003, 4:23 AM
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If there is anything that I avoid as much as rappelling it is loose rock. I would find it extremely embarrassing to get killed by rockfall, and even more so about hurting someone due to knocking something off a route.
If your climbing an established route most of the holds will have been tested by someone who is not as strong as you are. If you climb cautiously you will rarely pull something off unless your an absolute beginner. I cant emphasize enough how important this is. Test your holds and either dont use them if they are questionable or be very gentle.
Additionally, on long trad routes with lots of loose rock laying around your primary concern with placing gear should be how the rope runs in relation to the loose rock. If your rope knocks something loose it is your fault, dont even try to say it is not your fault or that there was nothing you could do about it.
If your belaying someone on loose rock, dont belay in the fall line. This supercedes the stand right under the route rule.
Human caused rockfall is not an inherent part of climbing in my book. It is considered extremely bad form to knock rocks down on a route, descent or approach. I would agree with Dingus that anyone who knocks a lot of stuff loose would not be someone I would want to have around when I am climbing.
Dont get me wrong, there are some really good modern sport areas where your climbing on absolute choss, but they are usually steep enough that your not endangering your belayer.
So bottom line is dont climb on loose rock and if you do, make sure your up to the additional challenges involved. It wasnt my fault does not cut it.
Ps. Re. potrero: I refused to climb the long easy routes because of the rockfall hazard. The outrage wall was fine. (anything steep)
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john_doe
May 26, 2003, 4:52 AM
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I would have to agree with rendog. I too live up in the rockies, and believe me, he is telling the truth. We tend to have quite a bit of limestone and quartzite. The limestone that I usually climb on is bad for breaking off. There is an adage that my climbing partner and I prescribe to, that being the: tap, wiggle, light pull method.
We were up on the 4th pitch of a climb on Friday, and I grabbed onto a rock (I say this relatively, because it was the size of a fridge) and I wiggled it and didn't move, and then I placed a light pull on it and the thing shifted about 2 inches. That was enough for me to decide that what I thought was a chockstone, was not so solid.
As for knocking off little stuff. I say if you call "rock", and are climbing with someone that you know is careful not to disturb everything under the sun, then just wear a helmet and duck and cover. IF your partner doesn't call "rock" then that bugger had better have been climbing with his mouth, so as to have a good reason why he didn't say anything!!
But as many others have posted, rockfall happens, just try and predict it and don't grab everything thinking that it is bomber. Test it first. :roll:
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darkside
May 26, 2003, 5:29 AM
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How to avoid dropping rocks :arrow: practice climbing ice.
How to avoid falling rocks :arrow: practice belaying an ice climber.
:P
Anyone who has doged ice knows what I'm talking about.
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weaselman
May 26, 2003, 1:58 PM
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If that guy got a speeding ticket would he stop driving? No! A speeding ticket is just a warning to be safe- in order to prevent a car crash.
In climbing, having a small rock hit your arm is like a speeding ticket- a warning to be careful so that you avoid the big car crash-- which would be something like decking from 50 feet.
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redpoint73
May 26, 2003, 2:14 PM
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You can't predict when rockfall will happen. You can inspect holds and test them. But I've seen holds break off even after they "sounded" solid. He saw the rocks falling and he yelled rock. He did everything he could. its no one's fault. Sometimes you have time to dodge the rocks. Other times you don't have time. Its better to just look at the wall and let your shoulders and helmet take the impact, rather than get hit in the face trying to see the rocks coming. Its a good thing that the rope was not severed, or that nobody was seriously injured or killed. So just chalk it up to experience and move on!
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enigma
May 27, 2003, 5:47 AM
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In reply to: Okay, I need your help...I was climbing Sunday with Rckjk, whom I love with all my heart, when a hold he was on broke sending a few rocks my way. He yelled a warning, I ducked, but one of the blasted things nailed my arm anyway. I couldn't climb out of the canyon on my own, so he quickly set up an anchor and pulled me out...geez talk about adrenaline turning a guy into superman. So here's where I need your help...the poor guy is really suffering...thinking he was at fault. I've tried the old adage "climbing is an inherently dangerous sport..blah, blah, blah", but to no avail. So reassure him. PLEASE, especially you guys who have climbed with him. else he may never let me climb under him again...literally, philosophically, or carnally. Thanks. Pam
Maybe you guys should just take a break from climbing together. Sometimes even if you care greatly and love one another, and there's some of trauma it might take a while to feel at ease together.
Even when someone gets hurt while another person is belaying (for argument) falling off lead, the association of the negative event plays in your head.
Give it some time and climb with other people and it will hopefully remedy itself.
Additionally the title of your thread"Throwing rocks at your partner" is quite telling,instead of something like " Accidental falling rocks hits your partner",you know what I mean???? :roll:
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overlord
May 27, 2003, 7:00 AM
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IMHO he did everything possible to warn you. sometimes holds brake, its just the way it is. when that happens you cant really help anymore, you can just scream rocks" and pray your belayer and any innocent bystanders get out of the way.
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