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ricardol
Aug 6, 2003, 6:25 PM
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Been checking around for hybrid aliens.. nobody has them .. talked to tom shores (from shoreline mtn) .. and he says that CCH has had lots of trouble manufacturing them this year ..
.. so what are the alternatives to the 4 sizes that CCH makes of these hybrid cams .. from reading other posts i gather that the 2 smalles sizes
(black/blue)
(green/yellow)
are the most useful .. does any other manufacturer make hybrid cams in these sizes?
-- anyone have a good lead on someone stocking some hybrid cams ..
(edited because i confused offset friends with offset aliens!)
-- ricardo
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dsafanda
Aug 6, 2003, 6:32 PM
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It's sort of funny. You've got your brands and gear manufacturers a bit mixed up and in the process you unknowingly answered your own question.
CCH doesn't make Friends they...they make Aliens.
Wild Country is the manufacturer of Friends and they do indeed make offset versions of these cams.
http://www.wildcountry.co.uk/pages/hardware//frie_offs1.html
I only own Hybrid Aliens so I can't speak as to their performance but I would think they are a solid product.
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troutboy
Aug 6, 2003, 6:32 PM
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In reply to: Been checking around for hybrid friends .. nobody has them .. talked to tom shores (from shoreline mtn) .. and he says that CCH has had lots of trouble manufacturing them this year ..
CCH would not only have a hard time manufacturing hybrid Frends, they would have copyright and patent violations also. Wild Country makes hybrid Friends. CCH makes hybrid aliens.
Now that we have that out of the way...the hybrid WC Friends have been on sale in various sizes at several mail order retailers recently, including Mountain Gear and Black Dome. The sale has been on for a long time, so sizes may be limited by now.
Do a search for offset friends on Yahoo and I'm sure something will turn up.
TS
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caughtinside
Aug 6, 2003, 6:33 PM
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Hmm, trouble making them? That's too bad.
Have you checked other online gear dealers? Just be sure to ask if they have them in stock, because they'll gladly take your money and back order to CCH, and you might not see them for a while...
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epic_ed
Aug 6, 2003, 6:44 PM
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The smaller offset Friends SUCK. In the sizes that match the Hybrid Aliens, the offset Friends are a very poor substitute because they are too wide to work where Hybrids excell -- in flared pin scars. You can often only get two lobes of the smaller offset Friends to stick in a pin scar, so for that matter you might as well be using any other cam already on your rack.
In the larger sizes, the offset Friends work better because all four lobes make contact with the rock more frequently. And they are they only manufacturer that makes them in the medium to larger sizes. CCH's largests size is the yellow/red. Placements for Offset/Hybrid cams above that range are encountered less frequently, but I will eventually supplement my rack with some of the larger offset Friends if CCH doesn't start making a larger Hybrid cam.
Substitute for Hybrid Aliens at this point? I'll take a cam hook over the offset Friends.
Ed
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petsfed
Aug 6, 2003, 6:55 PM
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According to my local gear shop (whose owner just drove over to the factory before work one day to find out) it is a supply/manufacturing issue. Same with regular aliens. Perhaps wait a while?
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ricardol
Aug 6, 2003, 7:01 PM
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called around like a madman .. and managed to find 2 of the little buggers
placed an order for
green/yellow
yellow/red
couldn't find the other 2 small ones .. so i'll probablyjust place a backorder for those ..
thanks for the info guys ..
-- ricardo
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lambone
Aug 8, 2003, 6:31 AM
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Try pro-mountain sports in seattle. Jim Nelson Carrys them. Also Marmot in Belveue sometimes has them. I found the last ones in Yosemite Mountain Shop.
Don't waste your $ on anything else but the CCH hybrids. And the smaller ones are awsome too...good luck!
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smithclimber
Aug 8, 2003, 6:47 AM
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Also try Mammoth Mountaineering in Mammoth Lakes, CA
Last year was the same problem: Nobody seemed to have any in stock, but MM had some last year when everyone else was out.
The # is 760-934-4191. I'd call em for ya, but it's midnight.
Oh yeah, I agree with Up2top and Lambone, don't bother with the Offset Friends, just go with the Hybrid Aliens. As mentioned the Offset Friends tend to be larger sized and the Hybrid Aliens are only in the small sizes.
If memory serves, the largest Hybrid Alien (yellow/red) is about the same size as the smallest Offset Friend (.5/1.0?), so the Friends kind of pick up where the Aliens leave off.
Am I right on that Ed, help me out if I'm a bit off on the sizing.
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epic_ed
Aug 8, 2003, 7:30 AM
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I'd have to look at the ones Jeff picked up, but I think his smallest two are comparable to the largest two of the Hybrids. Wild Country's website is completely worthless for providing any specific range info, but it looks like their smallest (#0-#.5) has a range of 13mm on the small lobe to 24mm on the larger one. That would make it about the same as the blue/green Alien. I used that one and the size larger off a buddies rack in Sedona. They're just too dang wide. Hybrid Aliens end at the yellow/red, and I think Jeff's offsets are equivalent in size. You don't find too many piton scars bigger than that.
Ed
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passthepitonspete
Aug 8, 2003, 5:57 PM
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Hey Ricardo,
Glad to see you're getting serious and buying some stuff! Hope to see you in Yos. after I arrive around Sept. 15.
Have you tried the Mountain Shop at Yosemite? They usually have plenty in stock.
I'm assuming that you want these hybrids for aid climbing in Yosemite, so let me tell you this - don't waste your money on Offset Friends!
I own one Offset Friend - I think it's a #0/0.5 - and I am quite certain it is the same size as my green/yellow Alien hybrids. Dude, the thing is nearly useless! It does not have the flexibility and degrees of freedom in the stem that are required to use it for aid climbing in piton scars. While I use [and sometimes even re-use - I rarely backclean] my hybrid Aliens on every aid pitch, and rarely arrive at the belay with any left, that stupid Friend is still hanging on my rack nearly every damn time!
Don't waste your money - buy Hybrid Aliens only, and if you are using them for aid climbing in Yosemite, buy the Hybrids preferentially over the "regular" Aliens.
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iamthewallress
Aug 8, 2003, 6:00 PM
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If I can't have my hybrids, the next best things IMO are non-hybrid aliens or HB ofset nuts.
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wigglestick
Aug 8, 2003, 6:31 PM
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I do most of my aiding on Sandstone. And I have 6 of the Offset friends and zero hybrid aliens, or zero aliens period. I wouldn't say that the offset friends are useless but more they may not be suited as well to the smaller pin scars that you find in Yosemite. The friends are larger and are absolutely godsend on those huge pinscars that you find on soft sandstone routes. There are pitches in the desert that were made much easier because of the offset friends. When the crack is small you can usually get a offset nut to work almost as well. But when the flare is .5 camalot size in the back and #1 camalot in the front you can't go wrong with the offset friends.
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ricardol
Aug 8, 2003, 7:06 PM
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looked at the mtn shop -- they said they had not received any shipments from CCH this year (of hybrids) ..
.. i did find the 2 largesr ones .. and i ordered the other 2 ..
.. which should be fine .. thanks everyone for the leads .. i'll be in the valley at the end of september (2 weeks) .. hopefully after that i'll have something worth spraying about ..
-- ricardo
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lambone
Aug 8, 2003, 7:39 PM
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oh yeah, check Shoreline's web site. I got two from them this spring...
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ricardol
Aug 8, 2003, 9:21 PM
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just got notice from shoreline that they shipped my order for the 2 smaller ones .. hmm .. i guess not as hard to find as they thought they would be..
-- ricardo
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justsendingits
Aug 11, 2003, 10:45 AM
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I have 2 offset Aliens, and 3 offset friends.
I have had no luck finding offset Aliens,so I bought the friends in Yos. 25% off,they work,but not as good as the Aliens,but they do work for most flared cracks.
Someone told me to have the Anodized(sp?) coating on the offset friends sand blasted off,as this will make them softer like the Aliens.
Any thoughts on this??
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