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fredbob


Sep 19, 2003, 9:16 PM
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New Joshua Tree Web Site  (North_America: United_States: California: Joshua_Tree_National_Park: _Joshua_Tree_National_Park_Overview_)
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joshua Tree is already blessed with one great web site http://www.climbingjtree.com. Now a new site has been launched by Josh local Todd Gordon http://www.joshuatreeclimb.com. Though still in its infancy, it has big ambitions and looks to become a great resource on this world class climbing area.

BTW, anyone who claims that you can't get strong at Josh hasn't done any of the many steep and hard routes there. With more than 6,000 routes, not everything is a slab as some pundits seem to think.


enigma


Sep 19, 2003, 10:20 PM
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Re: New Joshua Tree Web Site [In reply to]
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In reply to:
joshua Tree is already blessed with one great web site http://www.climbingjtree.com. Now a new site has been launched by Josh local Todd Gordon http://www.joshuatreeclimb.com. Though still in its infancy, it has big ambitions and looks to become a great resource on this world class climbing area.

BTW, anyone who claims that you can't get strong at Josh hasn't done any of the many steep and hard routes there. With more than 6,000 routes, not everything is a slab as some pundits seem to think.

Sounds great, So when are you going to show me these steep hard routes Randy :?: ( you must know all the secret climbs) can't wait ! btw only in the 5.10's please :wink:


drkodos


Sep 19, 2003, 10:30 PM
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Re: New Joshua Tree Web Site [In reply to]
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5.10:

Clean & Jerk...... Slab City

:wink:


roughster


Sep 20, 2003, 2:18 PM
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roughster moved this thread [In reply to]
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roughster moved this thread from Regional Discussions to View this Website.


roughster


Sep 20, 2003, 2:34 PM
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Interesting site. I found the children and climbing photo seriously scary. I don't care how careful you are, you shouldn't place your kids in danger for no other reason than a photo.

As for the site: It will be interesting to see how the "subscription" piece works out. The only way it will IMO is to have small "mini-guides" with constantly updated information (as in completely incorperated with old information) in pdf files so people can print them out on the fly and cover the whole area. Just adding new routes with written descriptions and/or a pointer to an old map is not enough. They will basically need to redo the topo everytime to justify someone "paying" for new information. Further more, he should (and it looks like he is) creating pdf collections for "styles" i.e. sport climbing,bouldering, Trad 5.9 and under, trad 5.10, scary routes, well protected routes, etc... Being able to click a link to get a pdf for "all sport climbs" in the park would be a great feature, as would "bouldering" etc... All pdfs should be setup to print in a similar style as the Rockfax Mini-Guide.

I have thought about online topos, guides, etc.. and how it is realistic to make $$ off of them and just came to the conclusion that it "could" be done, but I believe most people seriously under estimate the amount of energy it would take in order for it to be successfull enough to justify the effort.

However, if there is one single area that has the route count to make it work it is Joshua Tree. Ironically enough, I think a "Develop on Demand" feature could be the best thing for Todd. As in, developing areas COMPLETELY as selling tool for the website. Picking a small crag and developing it as a modern sport climbing wall would be a huge hit in JT with the majority of the climbers, just not the majority of the locals :lol:


fredbob


Sep 20, 2003, 2:40 PM
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Re: New Joshua Tree Web Site [In reply to]
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So when are you going to show me these steep hard routes Randy :?: ( you must know all the secret climbs) can't wait ! btw only in the 5.10's please :wink:

All secrets (well most of them) will be revealed in the new guide. Vol. 1: Joshua Tree West now due around Christmas time. Covers nearly 3,000 routes from West Entrance to Barker Dam.

Clean & Jerk is a good answer, but as for hard, well I guess its a matter of interpretation. :)

In reply to:
Ironically enough, I think a "Develop on Demand" feature could be the best thing for Todd. As in, developing areas COMPLETELY as selling tool for the website. Picking a small crag and developing it as a modern sport climbing wall would be a huge hit in JT with the majority of the climbers, just not the majority of the locals.


East Siberia area in Mongolia; routes 466 to 481 are good examples. (you'll have to wait til x-mas)


roughster


Sep 20, 2003, 5:42 PM
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Randy,

Yeah I knew it was just a matter of time before true sport climbing came to JT. I am not surprised to see that even some of the locals are getting in on the act. The problem with JT has been one sport route here, 3 there, 1 over there, 2 over on that hill etc... It will be interesting to see how quickly it becomes popular once it hits one of the guidebooks :lol:

Well assuming it is a true sport climbing developed wall/area i.e. threadable fixed anchors, reasonably spaced bolts (not run out), etc..


socalclimber


Sep 20, 2003, 6:06 PM
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Yeah I knew it was just a matter of time before true sport climbing came to JT.

Just some speculation here, but I wouldn't get my hopes up just yet. There are some locals who I don't think would be to happy about this and may well chop new sport routes. Hard to say. The bolt wars in Josh ethic wise have been very hard to sort out. Certainly it will be nice to have some of the existing routes published for those who wish to visit them.

I think some of the hassle over sport routes is the style in which they are put up. Ground up, no power drills, no bolting in the back country seems to be ok. But I have heard of routes that fit this profile being chopped as well, go figure.

BTW roughster, my appologies for bashing you a few years back. It was inappropriate and I was wrong for it.

Cheers,
Robert


roughster


Sep 20, 2003, 6:20 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Yeah I knew it was just a matter of time before true sport climbing came to JT.

Just some speculation here, but I wouldn't get my hopes up just yet. There are some locals who I don't think would be to happy about this and may well chop new sport routes. Hard to say. The bolt wars in Josh ethic wise have been very hard to sort out. Certainly it will be nice to have some of the existing routes published for those who wish to visit them.

I think some of the hassle over sport routes is the style in which they are put up. Ground up, no power drills, no bolting in the back country seems to be ok. But I have heard of routes that fit this profile being chopped as well, go figure.

BTW roughster, my appologies for bashing you a few years back. It was inappropriate and I was wrong for it.

Cheers,
Robert

No worries Robert, water under the bridge. :) I have seen the bolt/chop/rebolt go down at JT as well as other SoCal areas. It does seem as a "community", the climber population is "relaxing" as the old guard now gives way to the newer developers brought up in a time when bolting was not as taboo. I am not saying it is wrong or right (though I doubt there is any real questions as to where I stand :lol: ) it just seems this issue is being tackled at many of the older "traditional" areas. See the Black Hills thread for more info.

If anything it will be interesting to see what happens. However it turns out, I hope it is not something that reflects poorly of climbers in the Rangers/Park managements eyes though.


socalclimber


Sep 20, 2003, 6:34 PM
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Cool, glad that's out of the way. There are certainly new attitudes abound, but some of the old guard still is in effect.

The NPS stance (I know this because I work closely with the climbing ranger and park staff due to the SAR team) just wants people to behave and follow the rules.

One thing that would be nice is if people would file the permits with NPS for bolting new routes. If people don't, then the NPS will figure we as a community (the climbing community) don't care about the rules. Randy would know far more about this since he is on the climbing committee.

Robert


bishopclimber


Sep 20, 2003, 6:37 PM
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Fredbob, as you are well aware there is an excellent jtree site already, www.climbingjtree.com Mike has done a very good job with that site (imo)


drkodos


Sep 20, 2003, 7:45 PM
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Clean & Jerk is a good answer, but as for hard, well I guess its a matter of interpretation. :)

I find it quite hard for the grade as being only 5'6" I can barely reach the cheater stones....... :wink:


fredbob


Sep 21, 2003, 5:43 PM
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In reply to:
Fredbob, as you are well aware there is an excellent jtree site already, www.climbingjtree.com Mike has done a very good job with that site (imo)

Did you read the original post?

In reply to:
joshua Tree is already blessed with one great web site http://www.climbingjtree.com.


I think Mike's site rules and I have heavily contributed to it (and will continue to do so). But Josh is a big area with tens of thousands of climbers visiting each season. The additional material Todd plans to provide to his site will only supplement Mike's site and provide a potentially additional resource for climbers.

Al Bartlett's guides have been an extremely valuable additional resource haven't they? Al's approach has inspired me to take a totally new approach for the new Josh guides. More info, climbers benefit. Its that simple.


bishopclimber


Sep 23, 2003, 1:57 PM
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Fredbob,
you are correct. I overlooked your first statement. my bad


pbjosh


Sep 23, 2003, 2:01 PM
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O'Kelley Crack is the sweetest 5.10 slab in the park, and easy for the grade to boot, no doubt.


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