|
|
|
|
nikdemeis
Oct 6, 2003, 5:51 PM
Post #1 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 3, 2003
Posts: 95
|
I was going through the pictures and noticed that graphs are up about some of the demographics from the site. But i noticed one was missing. There was no mention of race which got me thinking that i've seen very few asian climbers (me and on of my friends are the only two i know) and i haven't seen any black or hispanic climbers either. This includes pictures and while climbing. Maybe its where i climb but i was just wondering if anyone has noticed the lack of diversity in climbing?
Ok let me clear this up a little bit. I'm not judging any race. Judgement has nothing to do with this post. And people keep saying "obviously you haven't climbed at so and so place" and that is the whole point of this thread. I haven't climbed everywhere and where i have climbed i have noticed that it is pretty much white only and i've also noticed in magazines, websites, and just going through the picture on this site. I was just wondering if it is pretty much white climbers where you climb and if you have noticed this. Also think rations if you ahve 2 non white climbers to say a 100 climbers it doesn't prove that climbing in your area is ethinically diverse all it does is help prove that it seems white only. Hopefully this will help with some of the responses. Also i'm posting this because i'm an American Studies major with an emphasis on race/gender and inequality in america.
|
|
|
|
|
micahmcguire
Oct 6, 2003, 5:57 PM
Post #2 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 18, 2002
Posts: 889
|
yup, we noticed and debated about it a few times. its an almost solely white-participant sport. don't know why for sure.
|
|
|
|
|
mustclimb69
Oct 6, 2003, 5:58 PM
Post #3 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 5, 2002
Posts: 479
|
I have noticed an unbalance between races at all of my local crags now that I think about it. There is also more guys than girls.
|
|
|
|
|
rodeomountain
Oct 6, 2003, 6:01 PM
Post #4 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 190
|
Is it not like that in almost all sports? It seems to me that every sport seems to be dominated by one race or another.
|
|
|
|
|
texansherpa
Oct 6, 2003, 6:09 PM
Post #5 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 3, 2001
Posts: 138
|
yeah, I am the only indian climber ive ever met, anyone else out there?
|
|
|
|
|
onemistakebigpancake
Oct 6, 2003, 6:15 PM
Post #6 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 162
|
maybe it's the area/gym you climb...
there are lots of "non-white" climbers in BC
|
|
|
|
|
koko
Oct 6, 2003, 6:18 PM
Post #7 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 15, 2003
Posts: 139
|
I really don't care. I (and everyone else should) put color completely out of the picture and treat/judge everyone on their personal actions.
just my 2cents
|
|
|
|
|
onemistakebigpancake
Oct 6, 2003, 6:21 PM
Post #8 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 162
|
In reply to: I really don't care. I (and everyone else should) put color completely out of the picture and treat/judge everyone on their personal actions. just my 2cents
well said... I think the above is just an observation.
editted for wording.
|
|
|
|
|
grigriese
Oct 6, 2003, 6:21 PM
Post #9 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 15, 2002
Posts: 292
|
You don't climb in Southern California - that's for sure. There are huge amounts of asians climbing here. I climbed with 3 other females yesterday and 3 of us are of asian decent. There were many more at the crag also.
The people climbing in your region could just be an accurate representation of the demographics of the same region. California is ethnical diverse and you meet people of of all races and nationalities at the crags. It's not uncommon to hear several languages from around the world being spoken on any given day at all the crags I have been to.
Who cares about a persons race - just ask them if they wanna go climbing!
|
|
|
|
|
rokshoxbkr19
Oct 6, 2003, 6:22 PM
Post #10 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 767
|
I have always thought about that, especially from a business perspective. It seems like there are lots of other populations to promote to in order to increase business in gyms. And KOKO, I don't think anyone here is being judgemental, but rather curious. It sounds like people and me included would like to see more of a diverse group of climbers out there. I think Obe Carrion ins't white???? Anyway, whoever or whatever you are, KEEP CLIMBING< LOL
|
|
|
|
|
mattdog
Oct 6, 2003, 6:23 PM
Post #11 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2003
Posts: 1523
|
At the risk of sounding racist... the demographics of climbing are affected by the overall demographics of everything else... let's examine:
1) Location: climbing occurs mostly in the mountains, so climbers will be comprised of a demographic group that has access to the mountains, and prefers to be away from the city. There isn't a whole lot of climbing in downtown Manhattan.
2) Cost: Climbing is expensive. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Thus climbers must be able to afford their expensive pasttime.
With those thoughts in mind, the basic demographics of your average climber would be a non-urban, middle-to-upper class male or female. Contrast this with basketball, where the two requirements would be pavement and a ball... draw your own conclusions :idea:
I've seen a couple Asian climbers down at the gym here in upstate South Carolina. They have a great time, and are pretty good at it too. Climbing has nothing to do with who CAN do it...just who WANTS to do it.
|
|
|
|
|
bumblie
Oct 6, 2003, 6:27 PM
Post #12 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2003
Posts: 7629
|
Climbing is an "alternative" sport. For some reason, these "alternative" sports attract white people. Ever notice the near exclusivity of white people participating in the X-games?
|
|
|
|
|
rvega
Oct 6, 2003, 6:30 PM
Post #13 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 421
|
I'm half-hispanic does that count?
|
|
|
|
|
mreardon
Oct 6, 2003, 6:37 PM
Post #14 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 1337
|
This has been debated to death. It's pretty simple, and has little to do with cost. A pair of used shoes is $30 and chalk is under a dollar. For a whopping $100 you can have a complete bouldering rig, for $300 you have a rope, harness, and full top rope rig. A basketball and shoes costs more.
It's all about location and how often you get out. If you are in Texas, you'll find mostly white with a heavy latino population. If you climb in SoCal, it's more asian and plenty of women, if you climb in Arkansas, it's your sister/wife.
If you only think white guys climb, then you ain't out climbing enough, and you need to step out of you local gym and check out the rest of the climbing community.
|
|
|
|
|
grigriese
Oct 6, 2003, 6:40 PM
Post #15 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 15, 2002
Posts: 292
|
In reply to: This has been debated to death. It's pretty simple, and has little to do with cost. A pair of used shoes is $30 and chalk is under a dollar. For a whopping $100 you can have a complete bouldering rig, for $300 you have a rope, harness, and full top rope rig. A basketball and shoes costs more. It's all about location and how often you get out. If you are in Texas, you'll find mostly white with a heavy latino population. If you climb in SoCal, it's more asian and plenty of women, if you climb in Arkansas, it's your sister/wife. If you only think white guys climb, then you ain't out climbing enough, and you need to step out of you local gym and check out the rest of the climbing community.
Thank you Mike! I don't think people truely understand what demographics mean!
|
|
|
|
|
rokshoxbkr19
Oct 6, 2003, 6:44 PM
Post #16 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 767
|
HMMMMMMMMM..... I wonder why MATDOG chose basketball as the contrasting sport.... And actually there is some great bouldering right in downtown Manhatten! :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
mattdog
Oct 6, 2003, 6:45 PM
Post #17 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2003
Posts: 1523
|
In reply to: For a whopping $100 you can have a complete bouldering rig, for $300 you have a rope, harness, and full top rope rig. A basketball and shoes costs more.
A basketball and shoes cost more than $300? What are they made of, gold?
My point is that all you need for basketball is shoes and a ball. A full set takes most people years to acquire... webbing, rope, harness, chalkbag/ball, shoes (mine were $130), quickdraws, cams, biners...
NO sport, whether it be soccer, baseball, football, volleyball, or basketball is as expensive as climbing. (Well, maybe polo, because you gotta buy the horse. :wink: )
|
|
|
|
|
norskagent
Oct 6, 2003, 6:46 PM
Post #18 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 9, 2003
Posts: 409
|
houndears had a pretty diverse crowd, about 400 entered, I saw only one "black" guy, it would be neat to get more interested...I also saw several "so ill" guys, they are definitely a seperate category of climber.
|
|
|
|
|
ninjaslut
Oct 6, 2003, 6:59 PM
Post #19 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 260
|
In reply to: This has been debated to death. It's pretty simple, and has little to do with cost. A pair of used shoes is $30 and chalk is under a dollar. For a whopping $100 you can have a complete bouldering rig, for $300 you have a rope, harness, and full top rope rig. A basketball and shoes costs more.
That's patently misleading. I agree that it's possible to spend only $30 on shoes, if you were willing to buy used, and maybe spending $100 total on a crashpad, shoes, and chalk is doable, but again, it would be used or crappy equipment...and those are some cheap prices! I'm sure anyone who is so frugal, or such a good shopper, or just so cheap as to buy at these prices would never pay anything like $300 for basketball gear. Please! What basketball needs to cost more than $12? Who would pay $288 for used shoes?!
|
|
|
|
|
sid_rock
Oct 6, 2003, 7:01 PM
Post #20 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2003
Posts: 516
|
In reply to: yeah, I am the only indian climber ive ever met, anyone else out there?
Another Indian climber. Reprazent.
|
|
|
|
|
treehugger
Oct 6, 2003, 7:06 PM
Post #21 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 21, 2003
Posts: 53
|
In reply to: Location: climbing occurs mostly in the mountains
This isn't neccessarily true...climbing gyms aside, rivers can carve out some pretty nice areas. I live in MN and we climb all kinds of routes that were left behind by glaciers and rivers...no mountains for a thousand miles. Also, climbing gyms may be expensive, but many colleges and universities (typically at least reasonably diverse populations) have climbing walls as well.
In reply to: Cost: Climbing is expensive.
So? Its not that expensive, unless you are putting together a full trad rack. I certainly am not 'upper' class...barely middle, actually, and can afford to piece stuff together.
I am white, but then again, my wife and her sister got me into climbing, and they are Asian. In the end, I think that unless you are intimately familiar with the demographics of the entire climbing community, it is hard to make any sort of valid assumption as to its' overall composition.
A similarly mistaken assumption is this: in college, it seemed to me that most of the population was left-wing and progressive. Of course, this is obviously not true, but my observation reflected my surroundings and the people in my immediate vicinity. A couple of posts already illustrate this...those from SoCal and BC that have quite different observations.
So, whatever. My whole point is to always question your assumptions, particularly those based on very broad categories. There are always boatloads of exceptions, and all of these exceptions together may significantly outweigh your general case.
|
|
|
|
|
scuclimber
Oct 6, 2003, 7:50 PM
Post #22 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 1007
|
There are a lot of Asian-American climbers here in the Bay Area... maybe even 30%. Don't quote me on that stat, but it seems a reasonable guess to me.
Colin
|
|
|
|
|
mattdog
Oct 6, 2003, 8:01 PM
Post #23 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2003
Posts: 1523
|
In reply to: So, whatever. My whole point is to always question your assumptions, particularly those based on very broad categories. There are always boatloads of exceptions, and all of these exceptions together may significantly outweigh your general case.
I like your way of thinking... I always tell my son to think twice when he hears opinions presented as facts, and to always rethink other's ideas in order to come to his own conclusions. I should probably also remind him (and MYSELF) to question my own every now and then. :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
furryfrisbee
Oct 6, 2003, 8:59 PM
Post #24 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 23, 2002
Posts: 260
|
I didn't see the color of the people I dealt with until others started pointing it out. I'm part Indian, part German, part French, part Texan, and all American. I was raised on military bases where the only two kind of people were enlisted and officers, and their families. I find it sad that instead of accepting the people you meet doing the things you enjoy, you must dwell on why others don't want to do the same things you do. You in turn search for differences to explain why you don't see "them" at the crags. Grow up. You don't see some people at the crags because they don't want to be there. Maybe one day someone may actually do the number crunching and find out that there are as many of "them" (whichever minority is "them" this week) out at the crags, as there are everywhere else in our "civilization".
|
|
|
|
|
tucsonalex
Oct 6, 2003, 9:06 PM
Post #25 of 95
(5980 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 11, 2002
Posts: 1689
|
In reply to: I'm half-hispanic does that count?
Me too, so is Climbsomething.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
