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drrock
Dec 18, 2003, 8:28 PM
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Finally figured out what was causing my shoulder and neck to hurt periodically especially after a night of belaying at the gym. I am 99% sure I am getting a cervical neck strain from looking up so much and probably pinching a nerve. It is sore in my low neck in back after belaying and occasionally I get a shooting pain into the arm consistent with a nerve compression.
Anybody else have this and how do you belay to avoid the nerve compression? Thanks!
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sticky_fingers
Dec 18, 2003, 8:33 PM
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HA HA HA, yah I think we all get that from time to time. Go to any crag and you'll see belayers looking level or down, shouting encouraging words upwards. Either step back a little (but you risk flying into the rock should the leader fall, IF you aren't anchored in) or just look down from time to time. No reason to keep an eye on your partner if they're hanging...
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jt512
Dec 18, 2003, 8:37 PM
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In reply to: Finally figured out what was causing my shoulder and neck to hurt periodically especially after a night of belaying at the gym. I am 99% sure I am getting a cervical neck strain from looking up so much and probably pinching a nerve. It is sore in my low neck in back after belaying and occasionally I get a shooting pain into the arm consistent with a nerve compression. Anybody else have this and how do you belay to avoid the nerve compression? Thanks!
I try to arch my back, so that I don't have to bend at the neck so much.
-Jay
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charrock
Dec 18, 2003, 8:49 PM
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Hi: I was told by a yoga guy to keep your back straight, stand 'tall' like you are at attention only not so stiff and head high. Try it once and you will feel a difference immediately. Charlie
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jt512
Dec 18, 2003, 8:50 PM
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In reply to: Hi: I was told by a yoga guy to keep your back straight, stand 'tall' like you are at attention only not so stiff and head high. Try it once and you will feel a difference immediately.
Unfortunately, you won't be able to see your partner.
-Jay
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td
Dec 18, 2003, 9:45 PM
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One idea might be a postcard size mirror,
either handheld, or with some sort of mount, that you could put on your forearm, or in a harmonica type neck holder.
Or a small bicyclist type mirror.
Need a safe border to cover sharp edges - some hazard if you break it.
Haven't tried it yet but I ought to.
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hoofers_andy
Dec 18, 2003, 10:25 PM
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everyone gets that neck strain from time to time from lots of belaying. i believe that the exremely scientific name for it used by doctor types is 'climbers neck'
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overlord
Dec 19, 2003, 9:36 AM
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its quite normal.
but is it dangerous??????
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jumpingbadger
Dec 20, 2003, 5:10 AM
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You can roll up a towel and use it to help support your head, that sorta works. I pefer belaying with a GriGri with my partners that whip a lot- allows you to hold their weight with less shoulder effort. You will notice that lots of folks take a quick look down after their climber clips a bolt...
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slcliffdiver
Dec 20, 2003, 5:46 AM
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I turn my head and look up kind of sideways from time to time. You bend your back sideways and turn your head to the side a viola you're looking up without bending your neck backwards. Maybe this is why people point and stare :wink:
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leapfrog
Dec 20, 2003, 6:01 AM
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I once saw a guy belaying with a neck brace. Figured he might have had an injury, but then he took it off and climbed. Wonder how much that helps. Anyone here do that?
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smellyhippie
Dec 20, 2003, 6:10 AM
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I have a friend who brings one of those little airplane pillows that are shaped like a "U" and wears it sometimes while belaying. She put some sort of vibrating element (I didn't ask!) in it so it'll give you a little massage while you belay.
Hmm.
Nate
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daryl314
Dec 20, 2003, 6:21 AM
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as silly as it looks, opening your mouth usually helps quite a bit. at least with tightness in the front of your neck.
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revdeuno
Dec 20, 2003, 7:11 AM
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Try tilting you head to the side and following the climber with only your eyes. Alternate which side your head is bent to. Sideways extensions of the head put the least ammount of stress on the vetabrae.
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diesel___smoke
Dec 20, 2003, 11:37 AM
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Belay lying down...
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diesel___smoke
Dec 21, 2003, 4:49 AM
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8)
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coldclimb
Dec 21, 2003, 5:37 AM
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In reply to: One idea might be a postcard size mirror, either handheld, or with some sort of mount, that you could put on your forearm, or in a harmonica type neck holder. Or a small bicyclist type mirror. Need a safe border to cover sharp edges - some hazard if you break it. Haven't tried it yet but I ought to.
On your chin, so you can open or close your mouth to adjust the angle to see your partner the whole time. :D
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david.yount
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Dec 21, 2003, 11:37 PM
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Inside your head are many organs that make up "the brain." At the base of the "brain" begins the Spinal Cord. The spinal cord is part of the Central Nervous System (the rest of the CNS are the organs in your head). The Spinal Cord (SC from now on...) runs vertically from the base of the brain to the low back. The SC runs through the middle of the vertebrae.
Vertebrae are bones in your back; they are similar to donuts, with the SC running through the middle of each donut. There are 7 vertebrae in your neck region (cervical vertebrae), 12 vertebrae in your back (thoracic vertebrae) and 5 vertebrae in your low back (lumbar vertebrae). Additionally you also have a sacrum and coccyx below the lowest lumbar vertebra. These 24 vertebrae and the sacrum and coccyx (pronounced "cocksix") together are called the Vertebral Column, which is half of the Axial Skeleton (the skull bones are the rest of the axial skeleton).
Most people use the word "spine" to indicate the 24 vertebrae, as in, "You're so skinny your bumpy spine is easy to see down the middle of your back!"
Between each vertebra is a disc of cartilage, commonly referred to simply as "disc." Discs help to support between adjacent vertebrae. Connecting between vertebrae are ligaments. Ligaments help to stabilize adjacent vertebrae. Vertebral Column sports injuries are common (stress fractures of the bone, cartilage disc compression, strain of muscles/tendons and inflammation of ligaments). Spinal fractures and dislocations from heavy falls tend to involve T12 (lowest thoracic vertebra) and L1 and L2 (upper lumbar vertebrae) at the weight bearing transition between the thoracic and lumbar curves (the lower [lumbar] back generally curves inward and the upper [thoracic] back generally curves outward and where these two curves meet is a point of weakness).
One of the functions of vertebrae is to protect the spinal cord. The SC is a very large bundle of nerves (sensory nerves pass information from the muscles to the brain about what is going on, motor nerves pass information from the brain to the muscles about what to do next).
Consider the SC as a very large interstate freeway, like I-5, from Mexico to Canada, through California, Oregon and Washington. The cars are nerve impulses either going from the muscles to the brain (sensory nerve impulses) or going from the brain to the muscles (motor nerve impulses). Along the freeway are offramps and onramps which is how the nerve impulses enter the Spinal Cord or leave it.
In the climber's back the SC travels through the middle of the vertebrae. Bundles of nerves leave the SC between adjacent vertebrae. The offramps and onramps leave the SC between adjacent vertebrae bones. The cartilage disc helps to separate adjacent vertebrae so they don't squish the offramps and onramps. The ligaments help to stabilize adjacent vertebrae, again, so they don't squish the offramps and onramps.
What happens when you look up for an hour while your partner figures out a tough gear lead? Or maybe just a long session in the gym? You could cause compression of a nerve from the SC. But exactly what might compress these onramps and offramps?
Most likely overworked muscles/tendons are inflamed (lots of micro tearing and related fluids) or are knotted (adhesions is the technical term). Or inflamed ligaments (over use or unaccustomed use, maybe related to motor vehicle accident many years ago where you suffered whiplash). Sometimes the cartilage disc (herniated). Rarely, adjacent vertebrae bones (especially with disc degeneration and loose ligaments). Rarely, muscle contractures (shortened muscles around bone joints cause abnormal positioning of the joints).
Any of these could cause nerve compression (entrapment).
But what does nerve compression feel like? Common symptoms including weakness (motor nerves) , (the remaining symptoms are sensory nerves) numbness, paresthesia (abnormal sensations such as burning, tickling, pricking or tingling) and pain in the arms or hands.
Why does squeezing a nerve bundle make me feel this way?
When an onramp to I-5 is partially blocked, not many cars can get on the highway and those that due might be really pissed off from the wait (think of Los Angeles). In the same way, when a sensory nerve is compressed the nerve impulses will be impaired so the brain doesn’t receive accurate information about what is going on in the muscles because sensory nerve impulses aren’t able to get into the spinal cord (pain, tingling, etc). And if a motor nerve is compressed then the brain’s instructions to the muscles aren’t getting through (weakness).
If your symptoms involve your arm then you might have Thoracic Outlet Syndrome – TOS (rigorously titled Disputed TOS since doctors do not agree TOS even exists!).
It may be caused by traumatic or repetitive activities such as a motor vehicle accident or hyperextension injury (for example, after a person overextends an arm during exercise or while reaching for an object – uhm, like, uhm rock climbing). Certain body postures may exacerbate symptoms.
Treatment of TOS is conservative, and does not usually involve surgery. May include drugs such as aspirin, ibuprofen (or other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) to ease the pain. Physical therapy to increase range of motion of the neck and shoulders, strengthen muscles surrounding the shoulder so that they are better able to support the collarbone, and postural exercises can help you stand and sit straighter, which lessens the pressure on the nerves and blood vessels. Massage therapy to decrease muscle tension in the area, break up adhesions (knots) and scar tissue, increase range of motion, use hydrotherapy (ice pack or heating pad) as determined.
If you have symptoms of TOS, avoid carrying heavy bags over your shoulder because this depresses the collarbone and increases pressure on the nerve (thoracic outlet). You could also do some simple exercises to keep your shoulder muscles relaxed, stretched and healthy. Here are three that you can try; do 10 repetitions of each exercise twice daily.
1. Corner Stretch: Stand in a corner (about one foot away from the corner) with your hands at shoulder height, one on each wall. Lean into the corner until you feel a gentle stretch across your chest. Hold for 5 seconds.
2. Neck Stretch: Put your left hand on your head, and your right hand behind your low back. Pull your head toward your left shoulder until you feel a gentle stretch on the right side of your neck. Hold for 5 seconds. Switch hand positions and repeat the exercise in the opposite direction.
3. Shoulder Rolls: Shrug your shoulders up, back, and then down in a circular motion.
If you start to hurt…stop!
If you feel pain, tingling, or numbness in your neck it could also be a compressed nerve. Drugs, physical therapy and especially massage may help. Using a gel icepack at home directly after a gym session until the skin is numb (5 min - 12 min) may feel good. But the best cure for this (as well as all ailments) is prevention.
When watching your partner lead climbing try flexing your neck to one side and then rolling your neck back. Remember to use your eyes too, don’t move your head more than is necessary. Now flex to the other side. And take breaks whenever you can; when they reach a ledge, right after clipping pro, when they’re at a rest stance shaking it out. Pick a belay spot (if you got a choice) off to one side of the route, try not to stand directly beneath the route. As you allow breaks from watching your lead you won’t be looking up and will not see rock/gear dropping.
And the two most important ideas I’ve learned.
1) Breathe deeply. Really breathe deeply. Let you belly bulge out as you fully inhale. Don’t force a maximal inhalation, just breathe deeply. Fill your lungs. Feel your shoulders raise.
2) Relax your shoulders. Feel them drop as you exhale. Relax your chest. Let go of tension as you inhale/exhale. Relax your neck. Don’t hold one position very long. Try to let your shoulders fall backward. Open your chest.
--David.
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charrock
Dec 22, 2003, 1:50 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Hi: I was told by a yoga guy to keep your back straight, stand 'tall' like you are at attention only not so stiff and head high. Try it once and you will feel a difference immediately. Unfortunately, you won't be able to see your partner. -Jay
Sure you can, just look up.....
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drrock
Dec 22, 2003, 4:53 PM
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David that was very impressive. Good stuff, thanks for the tips.
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madmax
Dec 22, 2003, 5:42 PM
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Your poor neck hurts from belaying; deal with it!!!!!!!
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drrock
Dec 22, 2003, 7:59 PM
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What a guy, thanks, that's really helpful.
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maculated
Dec 23, 2003, 7:46 PM
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David,
Beautiful post.
I think a lot of newbies get pain in their neck from belaying. I remember when I first started my neck really ached, the muscles ached, the base ached . . . after a while you stop tensing, you stop having to look up all the time, and it all fades into a distant memory. If it isn't TOS, that is. :)
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dredsovrn
Dec 23, 2003, 9:21 PM
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I always thought one of those "C" shaped neck pillow people use in the car or on airplanes would be good. Either that or those big head rest looking things that NFL lineman have. Haven't tried either. I only think of it when my neck starts to hurt, and my partner doesn't think it's funny if I tie him off to go back to the car for a pillow, so I just try to look down when appropriate.
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