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timpanogos
Jan 15, 2004, 5:01 AM
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Josh,
you still missed the point
let me quote my original post
In reply to: 5. as you start getting higher, you can pull longer loops (enough for several moves) as long as you calculate your ground/ledge fall potential on loop
Also, please note that these instructions were for someone (original poster) who has no idea what is up with this - they are out for the first time - what should they do? - heck guys - high ball it to 25' then play with a backup knot from that point on - great advice!
In fact, tell them to just have some one at the crag tie the lead line to their aiders when they are about 3 moves up - no sense funtzing with ropes, backup knots and all that good stuff till you are well on your way!
Kate - on the Pete thread - not to start that all over here again - that is why I suggested before to go there and read it - but it's best to not clove off on the piece but to put a long prusik (I have 2' loops, drop one on a 2' runner and you now allow for 4' of streach before you load the piece
Chad
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holdplease2
Jan 15, 2004, 5:04 AM
Post #27 of 47
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All good points, Chad, thanks for the clarification and hope to run into you in zion sometime.
-Kate.
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epic_ed
Jan 15, 2004, 7:46 PM
Post #29 of 47
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Richard, excellent idea with the duct tape to keep the grigri from moving into position to get cross loaded. But where are you attaching the keep loop to on the grigri? I assume you modified the grigri somoehow.
Ed
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timpanogos
Jan 15, 2004, 7:58 PM
Post #30 of 47
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Richard,
What Ed asked ...
I would also like to tether my grigri - but do not want any major (even much over minor) physical modifications.
In my current gym jugging, I simply tied a piece of 2mil cord in the binner hole, but this is a very poor solution.
The duck tape is a great idea, not only to help (along with dmm plastic clamp - which I also use) keep the grigri in a good position, but to also keep the tether from getting up into the action.
Please show us the other side of that beauty so we can see how you teathered it.
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erdeneruc
Jan 15, 2004, 8:56 PM
Post #31 of 47
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Kate - I would not fix my rope to a locking biner, nor would I tie it to a biner at the end of a runner. This would lead to the problem that you describe.
Since we are trying to keep the weight of the rope manageable so it does not slip through the belay device, I can achieve the same effect by using a prussik loop. Just keep the loop long, tie the prussik knot on the rope, clip it to the biner in question, then take the slack out of the system. Do that by pulling the rope up, and setting setting the prussik lower on the rope. That way, when I fall the rope can stretch, moving up and through the biner. The prussik would ride up with the rope, it would go slack, but would not bind it.
A side benefit of this set up is that my pro will remain correctly aligned, and it will not lift up when the rope stretches. Just visualize a stopper fixed to the rope, first directly, then with the long prussik - you get the idea...
Erden.
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spike
Jan 15, 2004, 9:17 PM
Post #32 of 47
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HI epic_ed & timpanogos,
Here is a picture of how I added cord.
Drill small hole in black plastic, use 3m cord with knot, plus seam grip to keep it in place. I attach a longer cord to the small cord, so if/when the longer cord wears out it is easy to replace. You can see the longer cord attached to the short cord in the previous image. :D
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=13474
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climbhigher
Jan 15, 2004, 9:44 PM
Post #33 of 47
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WATCH OUT!!!! don't cross load your locking biner when using a grigri. And my Modifyed Girgri is sketchy at best. (It has not caught me everytime). And one time the lever got caught on something and i went for a ride to. Saw off the lever. IT's crazy not to use a BACK UP Knot. I guess when i rope solo. I just don't plan on falling. I take the same attitiude as when i solo without a rope.
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ricardol
Jan 15, 2004, 9:52 PM
Post #34 of 47
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In reply to: I am an evil sinner because I don't tie a backup until I am 25 feet off the deck if it is C1. evil careless sinner. Consider it highballing. See? I am an aid boulderer. Without a crashpad. Still, since I am super effective, that is only about 3 or 4 moves. heh. Ricardo: What do you do about rebelaying to avoid the rope slipping through? -Kate.
.. kate ..
i do the same thing you're talking about -- i tie the backup once i'm at least 20+ feet off the deck .. before that .. you're going to deck anyways .. (plus is a "backup" -- most of the time it doesn't come into play!) ..
.. about re-belaying .. i use long prussiks .. (i forget their length -- i think mine are tied out of 6' lengths of 6mm cord.. though that might be wrong -- i'm not at home to check right now) ..
.. i've taken 4 aid falls on re-belayed lead lines .. and checked where the prussik ended after the ride came to a stop .. always right below the carabiner of the piece .. so its a good system in my book .. you have to take all the slack out of the line when you put it on the prussik .. blah blah..
.. if your prussik is too short then you could run into trouble where your fall is arrested by the prussik .. which could kill you. (will kill you)... like someone said earlier .. soloing is not for everyone.
-- ricardo
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ricardol
Jan 15, 2004, 10:02 PM
Post #35 of 47
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thats a modification i have to make to my grigri! -- (keeper cord) .. the whole way up on zodiac i was scared i would drop the grigri every time i had to remove it to thread it onto the other line ..
(i knew how to use other methods -- so dropping it would have just been inconvenient)
-- ricardo
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epic_ed
Jan 15, 2004, 10:25 PM
Post #37 of 47
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Yeah, but can you solve them for about $200 less? :mrgreen:
Richard, thanks for the photos. Great idea.
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diesel___smoke
Jan 15, 2004, 10:56 PM
Post #38 of 47
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In reply to: Yeah, but can you solve them for about $200 less? :mrgreen:
Ummm... Steal one???
Hahaha,
Jp
(Don't take this literally... some people might)
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timpanogos
Jan 15, 2004, 11:53 PM
Post #39 of 47
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yea, time to get out the drill! Thanks
That picture does go to show that some gear you just do not retire!
(those gloves are great!)
cool picture.
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crackboy
Jan 16, 2004, 12:50 AM
Post #40 of 47
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Registered: Jun 14, 2003
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hey spike do you tie a cord to orientate the gri up for a chest harness?
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timpanogos
Jan 16, 2004, 6:09 AM
Post #41 of 47
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Dang - climbing on the brain ....
A little math ....
25' off deck - I'm standing on a nice bolt - Next moves are some nasty looking blown out pin scars - c2 pro placements - so good time to tie a backup knot - I drop a 10' loop off my backup binner.
I highstep on up there - say 6' and place my next piece - quick waist bounce feels good, jump on it. You reach down and drop a regular runner and clip the bolt - grab your aider and start heading for the next top stepper - pop - the piece you are standing on pops.
At 13' off the deck your grigri starts to load - but somehow fails (caught handle or what ever) - unfortunately you now have 20' of rope in the loop to go and only 13' of air.
If your rope had - say - 6% elongation you are going to roughly stretch
50 * .06 = 3'
If you had a 5' loop at 25' - you will not deck - very hard (2' runner - 1' stretch before decking).
p.s.
reminds of of an old bumper sticker I saw once:
"299,792,458 meters per second - it's not just a good idea - it's the law!"
Chad
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holdplease2
Jan 16, 2004, 6:32 AM
Post #42 of 47
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Thanks for your comments and thoughts, guys, much appreciated. Right about now I am so sick of getting short-roped by my GriGri, especially as I get faster, I may well spring for an actual solo device. After all, about 70% of my climbing time is spent aidsoloing...maybe it is just time to bite the bullet...
Anybody want to buy some cats?
:)
-Kate.
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timpanogos
Jan 16, 2004, 6:44 AM
Post #43 of 47
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Nothing quite like that wonderful feeling of jumping up in those top steps and having it pull your pants down!
Dang I sure do cuss a lot when that happens!
That sp sure is appealing.
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mrhardgrit
Jan 19, 2004, 2:49 PM
Post #44 of 47
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Registered: Nov 28, 2001
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I've used both a normal grigri, modified grigri and clove hitches for aid soloing. The modified grigri is definitely the way to go if you want to do a fair bit of free climbing (and accept the increased risks) - although it still isn't that good if there is too much weight of the hanging end of the rope on grigri. It does also seem to not catch as well when you just sit back and rest on it occasionally = a bit of a momentary fright!
The unmodified is safer and very practical for a high degree of aid, even if you are travelling fast. Just be even more careful about the weighting of the rope on the grigri and you'll have less probs with smooth running.
However, if you want to save all your money - go with the basics. The Clove Hitch. It's certainly cheaper than the solo aid!
Tom
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imnotclever
Aug 3, 2004, 3:33 PM
Post #45 of 47
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Registered: Sep 8, 2003
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Bump
(I've spent quite a while searching for this again) :x
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ricardol
Aug 3, 2004, 4:21 PM
Post #46 of 47
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damm .. alot of good info there ..
.. i still haven't put a keeper cord on my grigri .. gotta do that soon
-- ricardo
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imnotclever
Sep 2, 2004, 2:34 PM
Post #47 of 47
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Well, I did the keeper. It works great. I copied Spike's method with one change.
Spike’s setup is shown on page 2 of this thread. He has a loop from the biner that attaches to the keeper in the GriGri. This I copied exactly.
He then has put a wad of duct tape on the bend of the biner to prevent the GriGri from moving to the spine. If you play with the GriGri on the spine of the belay master it is very easy to get the GriGri to torque itself against the biner, this could result in breaking the biner or the GriGri. I don’t know if this is what happened to Tom or if his was simply cross loaded. Spike’s duct tape is his way of ensuring that this doesn’t happen.
I attack this from a different way. I use it with the GriGri through the narrow end of the belay master. Doing this requires that you remove the plastic piece to get the GriGri to the narrow end, and then replace the plastic piece. Now you run the risk of dropping the plastic piece, so I took and added a keeper cord to the plastic piece that attaches to the keeper cord on the biner. (The keeper cord on the biner is attached at one end to the biner and the other end attaches the two other keeper cords, one for the GriGri and the other for the plastic piece.).
This way there is very little room for the GriGri to move on the biner. There is a lot of room for movement at the belay loop end of the biner, but this doesn’t matter because the pull on the GriGri will always put the belay loop where it needs to be, avoiding cross loading. Torque on the biner and GriGri is also avoided because there is no way for the GriGri to get around the bend of the biner.
It is not as much work as it sounds and it puts you back to relying on the plastic piece to prevent cross loading instead of relying on duct tape. Also you can flip it around if you want to use it for a munter hitch and not have the tape in the way.
Tom's story if you are unfimalliar
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