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coylec
Jan 16, 2004, 5:22 PM
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This is a strange question: How does everyone rack their gear? I'm interested in more than "on my harness," in fact, I'd love to hear the order of pieces, the way the biners face, et al. I'm trying to find a way to get my junk organized and useable, but haven't found a system that works really well.
Does being a lefty matter?
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craggincragin
Jan 16, 2004, 5:33 PM
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I think it's a matter of personal preference? I've found that pro and runners often get in the way when they're racked on front loops, so keeping them on the back loops works good. Other than that, it's really up to you.
Cheers
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sticky_fingers
Jan 16, 2004, 5:37 PM
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In reply to: Does being a lefty matter?
oh entirely, yes :P
Some people use an over-the-shoulder sling, some use their gear loops. I use the padded metolius sling (in my best French accent, "It's ah, very nice" Know the quote? anyone? anyone?) that has multiple loops. Usually I put the small gear towards the front/bottom loops (nuts) and the big stuff towards the back (cams). Within each loop, I also arrange the gear smallest to largest with smallest being foremost in the loop and the largest towards the back of the loop. My last "big" loop I save for emergency gear and tools, like slings, nut tool, extra lockers, etc.
Find a system and stick to it. See how your friends do theirs, too.
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njari
Jan 16, 2004, 6:16 PM
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I put my most common pieces (usually nuts and small cams) forward, and the others back. My Gear sling is segmented (multiple loops), and this really helps to keep things organized and accessible.
Also, I keep the "nose" (where the gate opens) of my biners up and towards me. I even painted the nose of my biners bright orange. In addition to identifying the gears as mine, it helps me orient my ovals when my mind is sketched out.
Oh, and sticky fingers:
In reply to: (in my best French accent, "It's ah, very nice" Know the quote? anyone? anyone?) |
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mtnbkrxtrordnair
Jan 16, 2004, 6:25 PM
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Since I'm right handed and generally hold on with the left hand while placing pro I keep pro on the right front gear loop of my harness in the following order, front to back, biners gate on the inside: One biner w/ small nuts, one with medium and one with large, about 6 nuts on each biner, then 5 cams in ascending size order from a blue alien up to camalot jr's. On the left front gear loop, front to back, red, yelow camalot, maybe blue, 3-4 shoulder length slings shotened to draw length, 3-4 quickdraws. I can reach everything on the left front gear loop with my right hand. Right rear gear loop gets a nut tool, 4 tri-cams (pink-brown) on one biner, three lockers with double shoulder length slings braided, a couple extra loose biners and lockers. Left rear loop gets the huge black camalot if needed, a couple extra small-med. cams if its a long pitch and a water bottle. Over the shoulder I carry 2 triple shoulder length tied slings for big trees and 3-4 shoulder length slings with 2 biners each.
This is all the gear, some gets left behind if I've led the climb before and/or have gear beta. Whatever works for you.
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sticky_fingers
Jan 16, 2004, 6:27 PM
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njari - very good
coylec - not that I'm trying to impose my thought on you, but from the sound of it, it seems most people use the same "system" or "order" for racking gear.
The most important thing is being able to instantly access a piece of gear, so the simpler (or more sense-ical :D ) the rack, the better it'll be for you.
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cjstudent
Jan 16, 2004, 6:40 PM
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Just to let you know there are other threads on this subject that you can find if you search. U'll find more info in those threads from other people who have already replied to this subject 60 times and will skip over it.
But like others said, it is a personal preference. I have two harnesses so it depends on which one i am wearing. Here lately I have been wearing my basic BD Alpine Bod harness that i have 3 gear loops on, and giving whatever chic is with me the good harness from Trango that has 4 loops. Going with the harness that has 3 loops:
Left side:
Draws. I have them racked as trad-draws so i put the shorter ones in the front and longer ones in the back. Also i may have a few loose carabiners on this side.
Back:
Anchor gear. This is for misc locking carabiners, my belay device, cordelette, longer slings, etc
Right side:
More draws and some longer runners that i have daisy chained. Also more extra biners
The last couple times i have climbed I have been using a gear sling. I put my pro on that. Nuts are racked first, small to largest on two biners. Then comes the tri-cams, next cams from small to largest. Then last i put my hex's that i use for anchors/bail gear/or pro when i have a good stance. Also i may throw a few biners on the sling just in case
I then may throw a shoulder length sling or two over the other shoulder opposite of the gear sling because sometimes the slings are easier to grab from my shoulder than from the harness.
I have experiemented racking on just my harness. But I am a small guy and after a full day with all of that my hips start hurting, and sometimes it is harder to get your pro when it is on your harness...and especially harder to put it back. But this depends on the climber, lots of guys/gals like it the other way. On the harness seems to be slightly more stable than the gear sling because sometimes all of the pro on the sling can get in your way.
It all depends on what works for you. You will probably get alot of advice to rack everything the same way and that is important, because sometimes you cannot look down and see what you are grabbing for...it has to be from memory. "Ok so the 5th carabiner from the front should be my .4 Camalot"
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mrme
Jan 16, 2004, 6:56 PM
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on a sewn sling just the right length and double wide. passive pieces first aranged in size small to large then cams same way binners out....all slings cordellet and biners belly device and nut tool on harness short slings up front ,long slings trippled over on back longest slings doubled twiseted and doubled agian clipped nearst to chalck bag on a locker.
though if it is overhung i might change and rack on harness instead, and switch it from hanging on my left shoulder to the right shoulder if i am in a corner witch suites it that way better.
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holdplease2
Jan 16, 2004, 7:53 PM
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I've used several systems including shoulder sling with multiple size cams on one biner when I started...grab a bunch similar size, see what works. Also, becuause I was really new I carried a ton of gear so that I could really sew it up and have my choice of peices at all times.
However, since I now carry less gear, I rack on my harness most of the time. And because gear loop space is limited, I don't rack each peice on its own biner.
***note, this system was taught to me by Smithclimber***though I may have changed it some.
Left Front Loop: Passive pro, 1.5 sets of nuts racked on NOTCHLESS biners to prevent dropping and either ballnuts or tricams, depending on need.
Left Rear Loop: Draws or slings & biners trippled over. TO SAVE SPACE ON GEAR LOOP - clip one draw to the loop, then clip 4 or so draws to the top biner of the draw that is on the loop. You can carry more this way. Nut tool also goes here.
Right Front Loop: First biner - 3 smallest aliens (just one of each). Then 4 biners, 2 cams of the SAME SIZE on each biner. Put the biner on with the gate facing out, with the opening pointing up. Just snap the peice you need out of the biner while it remains on your harness. Snap it back in if you want to put it back. Smooth and efficient IF you use the right biners - large basket wire gates like omegalite 4.0. Biners like the dovals suck, as there is not enough room to manuver inside the biner with a couple of peices and a gear loop in there.
Right Rear Loop: Any singles of larger sized cams and more draws, racked with 4 or so draws hanging from the top biner of one draw.
From rear haul loop: Anchor kit, with cordalette a few lockers.
In Chalk Bag: I have a sweet metolius chalk bag with a huge pocket on the bottom. I carry a small multitool (with pliers and knife), mini first aid kit with moleskin and butterflies, petzl zipka, and ropeman ascender (tiny). I often have my grigri on me, so I can ascend a rope really fast with the ropeman and the grigri or prusik.
Over the Shoulder: Sometimes a long sling or a couple of extra slings for whatever purpose.
-Kate.
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slcliffdiver
Jan 16, 2004, 10:10 PM
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Depends a bit on the climbing style and climb. If you are swaping leads and looking to go fast it sometimes pays of to have an agreed upon simple racking system and rack all the pro on the gear sling. Generally lighter gear closest to your nose (having the heavey stuff on the bottom prevents it from pushing the ligther stuff farther back with presewn loops it trys to shift less this way because the heavey stuff wants to go to the bottom anyway). You don't wan't your gear scrapping and catching against the wall while you are climbing or stuck between you and a wall while you are trying to get it (corners, chimney, etc.) so adjust accordingly. Also doing liebacks if you are doing a right facing lie back it pays to be able to get all the gear you'll need with your right hand (it's less awkward to place pro with that hand). If you decide to rack pro on your harness what will be best will probably be determined by the size of the gearloops how far forward they are your ape index/flexability and pro and possibly some other body specific things. Being able to grab pro with either hand off of the front loops is nice having the pro catch up on your thighs when you lift them and against the rock is a pain.
All that said here's what I like to do when it's reasonable for the climb. large/medium gear on my front gear loops smallest towards the front. What goes on right or left is determined by the climb. Light gear on a homade gear sling, 1" tied webbing with seperator loops tied on. I put the loops on because sometimes I like being able to pull it around so the pro comes to my hand and I don't have to reach to the lowest point on it with the opposit hand. Also it's handy when I need to start stacking it with a lot of pro for a chimneys or such. It's light full strength, rap disposible (cheap), it's plenty comfy for me as long as I keep only light stuff on it and it take just enough stuff off my harness that my harness loops aren't to crowded.
I don't know if it has to do with my body type but one reason I don't like a lot of gear on my gear sling is I feel I have to adjust my balance and weight shifts to the sling when I have a lot of gear on it. I feel freer to move like I like with the gear on the harness also tons of stuff on a gear sling makes it harder to see some of my foot placements. I'll have to admit though racking all the pro on a gear sling is gererally more versitile if you are swapping leads.
Also if you've been on the route before and know some of the pro and slings that will go with them go ahead and put them someplace handy with the slings pre attached extendo draw style (you can do this over the shoulder sometimes but you need to know what you're doing to prevent possible tangling with other over the shoulder slings).
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crackjammer
Jan 16, 2004, 10:46 PM
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Some really good detailed answers above. It seems like most of them are setup for cragging or multipitch where one person does all the leading. If you are just cragging, hang it directly off your harness. If swapping leads on alpine rock, you should use a gear sling. Easy gear handoff to your partner after you finish reracking is key. Swapping leads is the quickest way to move up a mountain.
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frantik
Jan 16, 2004, 11:00 PM
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I generally rack up with a combo of my harness and shoulder sling. I put cams on the shoulder small to big front to back. On my front loops I keep nuts(divided onto two biners small and large) and draws. On one back loop I have anchor gear and the other is usually big cams and/or hexes. I am trying to slim down but am always paranoid of running out of gear. It really depends on the climb.
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slcliffdiver
Jan 17, 2004, 1:10 AM
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In reply to: Some really good detailed answers above. It seems like most of them are setup for cragging or multipitch where one person does all the leading. If you are just cragging, hang it directly off your harness. If swapping leads on alpine rock, you should use a gear sling. Easy gear handoff to your partner after you finish reracking is key. Swapping leads is the quickest way to move up a mountain.
Kind of, for trading of leads on easy low angle rock and placing few pieces gear slings are definatly the way to go. For steep technical rock and placing lots of gear I'm not sure you save time overall. Basically I add in extra time with full loaden gear slings for having to futz with it sometimes to get the piece you want, either moving it or adjust your body position so you can see your foothold and moving slower on some balancy sections so it doesn't swing you off I feel more balanced with most of the wieght on my harness and I think I move quicker because of it (magnified as the climbing gets harder/more delicate). Since you are dealing with two different people there are many other things that go into total climbing effiency and racking methods.
In practice for me when swapping leads most of what I mentioned doesn't really come into play. If the climbing is delicate and I'm on lead I'm going to rack it my way, if not if and the other person uses a gear sling for all the pro I will also to keep things simple, if they put the big stuff towards there nose and the stoppers at the far end and hand me the sling I'll bonk them over their head with the biggest piece on the rack. Simple ehh :wink:
I think it's human nature for people to count "waisted" time when they are futzing around at a belay ledge but not as much so when on route. Maybe it's "my" mental clock that's skewed but I'm convinced on steep routes with a fair amount of pro placed and competent partners there is very little to no difference in overall time and at the extreme ends you'll save time not having all the gear racked on your gearsling even switching leads. Remember time futzing while climbing makes you tired more than on a belay ledge so you gradually end up getting slower and slower the more time you spend placing pro and climbing.
By the way I forgot to mention one of the most important things having consistant system(s). If you do this long enough with racking loops (harness and or gear sling) the piece you want might at some point start majically appearing in your hand ready to place. I could never do this on gear slings without loops but maybe some can. Your fingers learn where everything on your rack is and your mind keeps track of what you've placed already. I think my fingers can autotrack of around max eight biners/per loop. I vaugely recall when I started out learning to find a piece I'd have my fingers count biners from the front or back whichever is closer to the piece I wanted. At some point it turned to auto-pilot - no clue about when. The only reason I know this is because I had long lay off from trad and my first pitch back I'd stop to place a piece and wait for it to show up and wait and wait and wait. My hands would wait by my side for specific instructions from me because they had forgotten my rack (I actually forgot to review it) and my brain was waiting on my fingers because it had gotten used to them doing all the work. My partner had a sense of humour about the whole thing. But I'm not sure I'm glad she did :oops:
These are the expressed opinions of my evil twin. No opinions expressed here should be taken to reflect the opinion of any sane person either living or dead.
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j_ung
Jan 17, 2004, 1:20 AM
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The interesting thing here is that everybody who has replied has a "system" that doesn't change much from climb to climb. I'm the same way. In fact, name a piece of gear (from my rack), and I can tell you exactly where it is when I start a pitch! :lol:
Another point: My racking system changed when I got a new harness, because the gear loops were no longer in the same locations. I had to make adjustments to keep some pieces from getting caught up in my rope. I'm used to the new system now, but the first few leads sucked!
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slcliffdiver
Jan 17, 2004, 9:08 PM
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Dooh! I forgot something crackjammer is mostly right about swapping gear slings being faster on most climbs that is until you get the racking flow. There is a very significant differences in speed of racking between knowing your rack really well, where to put each piece and being reasonably quick about it and having a real flow to it. I think this was the non climbing trad skill that took me longest to become efficient at. I hope I can get out enough this year to get it back.
Edited: Due to lack of grammer. Is it fixed :wink:
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scubasnyder
Jan 17, 2004, 10:36 PM
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you get a personal pref. once you start climbing more
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bustinmins
Jan 17, 2004, 11:31 PM
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four gear loops plus one chalk bag loop:
Front right- .5/.75/1/2/aliens: red & green, half of my stoppers divided on two biners,
Front left- redundant 1 and 2 BD Camalots, half of my stoppers divided on two biners, tri-cams (smallest five)
Rear right- BD Camalots: 3/3.5/4, Hexes along with four quick draws
Rear left- loose BD Hotwire biners, locking biners, extra belay device along with four quick draws
Chalk Bag strap has my bail gear...extra rap rings etc and tape.
Wrapped around torso:
Over right shoulder: 48" spectra runners - each with their own biner that connects the ends of the runner(half moon shape). This enables me to pull these particular runners out, just by unclipping them.
Left shoulder: 24" spectra runners and Nylon runners over the 48" runners.
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