How much smaller than the angle do you drill the hole? 3/8" hole for a 1/2" angle correct? Basically I will be using angles as glue-ins in sandstone'ish rock that as a matrix is solid, but the large loose grain is preventing expansion bolts to "bite" while tightening.



but want to know what people think from 1st hand experience. Also, what about adding some glue to the hole before pounding it in to give it a little extra strength?

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...n=Show&PhotoID=26324
I wouldn't tell someone with a mentality portrayed in the link above anything regarding this matter (read the caption and the title).

Here is a nice image:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=Show&PhotoID=4183

Yeah, no kiddin'. I mean if a feller can't even afford a Hilti TE-6A...

Please don't judge anyone based upon their financial viability...

I wouldn't tell someone with a mentality portrayed in the link above anything regarding this matter (read the caption and the title).

Unless you have something useful to add to this thread?

Again, you have failed. Is this thread about ethics?

Have you tried the Fixe Triplex or the studs with the double expansion sleeve? I'd probably use those instead of baby angles.

I saw a busted baby angle (from Spaceshot in Zion) last year. Scary. I think the pins get damaged when you pound them in to a tight hole (and the placement needs to be tight for the pin to stay). This one broke back of the eye along the top part of the spine. I wonder if glue would accentuate the corrosion process.

Baby angles just aren't a good long term solution especially for an area which might be a popular sport climbing venue. You'll never really know how well they'll resist outward pull (how much spring action is there keeping the pin in the hole). And, when you damage the protective coating by placing them, you won't be able to see how badly corrosion is eatin' away at them.

But...if need be...drill a 3/8" hole and gouge out the last 1/2" or so, especially where the eye will seat (ovalize at the surface of the hole). 5 degree downward slant sounds about right.

How 'bout drilling a 3/8" pilot hole, blow it out real good, then step up to 1/2" diameter and be careful about pulling the drill out to clean off the dust every 1" or so? Then try an expansion bolt. Or a stud. Dynabolt Gold.

If the rock's poor enough to not seat an expansion bolt, it probably won't hold a baby angle very well either. Sounds like glue-ins might be the best option.

Brian in SLC

Thanks for the good info. We have tried to different types (Rawl and Dual Expansion Fixe) both in 3/8" and 1/2" diameters for the rawls as well. The problem is the loose matrix means that there is no bite to start the expansion process. Its really a funky situation. The rock is solid enough to hold a expansion that you can get to bite, but sometimes it is the case you just cant get it to bite at all. The bolt itself just spins inside of the hole.

As for the angles, you didn't really say what you thought about adding glue to the hole before pounding in the pin in essence using the angle as a glue in.

So basically following standard drilled angle procedure, but then before pounding it in, slap in say 1/4 depth worth of glue and then pound in the pin. The glue should bond the pin to the rock thus increasing its holding power, but also porviding some protective measure to the surface of the pin.

My biggest cocnern here is longevity of the pin. Has anyone actually used/seen Glued-Drilled-Angles before? I have some Glue-in studs that I can use if need, just figured I would think about the pins.

Hey Guys,

Have any of you had experience placing glue-ins in softer sandstone? like lighter colored rock? On the Great White Throne, I was placing 1/2" bolts into 3/8" holes in order to get a tight fit. I had to flare the entrance of the hole to get the Rawl started....They cranked down O.K. but I still couldn't help thinking if glue-ins would be better. I just wonder how well the glue would bond to really soft sandstone.

In harder, darker Zion sandstone I've found it works well to start cranking on the rawl after tapping the bolt in about an inch deep. then tap another 1/2 " crank lightly and repeat this process until the bolt is all the way in. The bolt now has a nice snug fit to where you can crank down a lot harder and finish the job.