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oldsalt
Mar 23, 2004, 3:17 PM
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Some of my best friends are climbers. :wink:
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taualum23
Mar 23, 2004, 3:19 PM
Post #27 of 61
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I'm a climber, but I'm very normal-acting.
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camhead
Mar 23, 2004, 3:24 PM
Post #28 of 61
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In reply to: In reply to: OK, I’ll step up. The use of the word gay as a derogatory term just bugs the heck out of me. Would any of you say “desert corners are so Jewish” or “sport climbers are a bunch of spicks”? Hey, even if you believe that sexual orientations other than hetero are wrong, you should be at least civil. I'd agree with that. Lets watch the "hate speech" guys.
yeah, and on the same subject, we should change the name of "Black Corner" at Battle of the Bulge. Way offensive. Anyway, all desert corners are ghey, don't climb them, just go crowd up kalcario's crags in California and you will be all right. Utah is not worth your precious time, don't go there.
Oh, and rockprodigy, isn't Ruby's Cafe like a 5.8 if you lay it back?
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taualum23
Mar 23, 2004, 3:27 PM
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cam head...the obvious problem with your (I hope sarcastic) response is that Black corner is, in reality, a black corner. I have never seen any desert corners of the same gender having sexual realtions.
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traddad
Mar 23, 2004, 3:36 PM
Post #30 of 61
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To defuse this issue before it becomes a name calling contest, let me tell a story:
On my high school freshman track team there was a black sprinter by the name of Shadrack who was my relay partner and was quickly becoming a fast friend. Being young, unobservant and willfully ignorant, I went along with the fashion of the time and called all my male friends “boy” as a term of teasing derision. One day while practicing hand offs I called Shadrack “boy” and he immediately became quietly angry and walked to the other side of the track. A friend grabbed me and explained in no uncertain terms what I had just done. I was mortified. I was just kidding around. I didn’t mean to offend him. I jogged over and apologized immediately, but we never really had a chance to become good friends after that.
I screwed up and I still kick myself in the ass 33 years later. It’s not about being PC. It wasn’t about intent. It was all about me not thinking.
Intent should always be considered and some people just WANT to be offended, but if your intention is to not offend, then choose your words carefully.
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murf
Mar 23, 2004, 3:51 PM
Post #31 of 61
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In reply to: In reply to: OK, I’ll step up. The use of the word gay as a derogatory term just bugs the heck out of me. Would any of you say “desert corners are so Jewish” or “sport climbers are a bunch of spicks”? Hey, even if you believe that sexual orientations other than hetero are wrong, you should be at least civil. I'd agree with that. Lets watch the "hate speech" guys.
Yeah - "hate speech" is gay.
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mreardon
Mar 23, 2004, 4:27 PM
Post #32 of 61
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: OK, I’ll step up. The use of the word gay as a derogatory term just bugs the heck out of me. Would any of you say “desert corners are so Jewish” or “sport climbers are a bunch of spicks”? Hey, even if you believe that sexual orientations other than hetero are wrong, you should be at least civil. I'd agree with that. Lets watch the "hate speech" guys. Yeah - "hate speech" is gay.
You're gay for even saying that hate speech is gay.
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gunked
Mar 23, 2004, 4:31 PM
Post #33 of 61
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Okay it's getting a little too "South Park" in here. :wink:
-Jason :lol:
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dirtineye
Mar 23, 2004, 4:53 PM
Post #34 of 61
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In reply to: To defuse this issue before it becomes a name calling contest, let me tell a story: On my high school freshman track team there was a black sprinter by the name of Shadrack who was my relay partner and was quickly becoming a fast friend. Being young, unobservant and willfully ignorant, I went along with the fashion of the time and called all my male friends ?boy? as a term of teasing derision. One day while practicing hand offs I called Shadrack ?boy? and he immediately became quietly angry and walked to the other side of the track. A friend grabbed me and explained in no uncertain terms what I had just done. I was mortified. I was just kidding around. I didn?t mean to offend him. I jogged over and apologized immediately, but we never really had a chance to become good friends after that. I screwed up and I still kick myself in the ass 33 years later. It?s not about being PC. It wasn?t about intent. It was all about me not thinking. Intent should always be considered and some people just WANT to be offended, but if your intention is to not offend, then choose your words carefully.
YOu know, his reaction is more a reflection on him than on you man. I had the same sort of conversation wirh a bunch of black friends I used to play chess with, only the word was son. THey explained that they didn;t like that term, adn I explained that all my friend s at the time called each other son, or even boy, the way foghorn leghorn did, as in, "No NO NO boy you got that all wrong!" , adn, " Boy makes about as much sense as a chinese newspaper." My friends all understood it. Of course we were a bit older than highschool, adn the fact taht none of us tolerated racism from either side when directed at our little mixed race group played a part in the outcome.
taking PC BS to the extreme is jsut stupid and counter produtive, unless you go around looking and wanting to be offended, then it really helps, haha.
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murf
Mar 23, 2004, 6:09 PM
Post #35 of 61
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In reply to: To defuse this issue before it becomes a name calling contest, let me tell a story: On my high school freshman track team there was a black sprinter by the name of Shadrack who was my relay partner and was quickly becoming a fast friend. Being young, unobservant and willfully ignorant, I went along with the fashion of the time and called all my male friends “boy” as a term of teasing derision. One day while practicing hand offs I called Shadrack “boy” and he immediately became quietly angry and walked to the other side of the track. A friend grabbed me and explained in no uncertain terms what I had just done. I was mortified. I was just kidding around. I didn’t mean to offend him. I jogged over and apologized immediately, but we never really had a chance to become good friends after that. I screwed up and I still kick myself in the ass 33 years later. It’s not about being PC. It wasn’t about intent. It was all about me not thinking. Intent should always be considered and some people just WANT to be offended, but if your intention is to not offend, then choose your words carefully.
The only thing gay-er than "My best friend is black" stories are "My best friend *could* have been black" stories.
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stellanole
Mar 23, 2004, 6:11 PM
Post #36 of 61
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are you kidding me???
may i? thanks...
i opened this thread hoping to find an explanation for a new climbing term i was unaware of. no such luck. instead i find someone wanting to strike up a conversation about desert corners, using the word 'gay' obviously intended to express some degree of negativity.
man. how dissapointing. do we not have enough words in the english language that you have chosen one that could POTENTIALLY offend?
and please, lets not turn this into a PC debate...thats just a 'LAME' (hey now theres a GOOD WORD!) attempt to dodge the issue.
you obviously posted and used the word especially in your subject heading knowing you would stir the pot. good job! the fish are BITING!!!
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bellatoris
Mar 23, 2004, 6:43 PM
Post #37 of 61
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Registered: May 27, 2003
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if you lieback while he is jamming it in your are both gay..
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camhead
Mar 23, 2004, 6:43 PM
Post #38 of 61
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hey, how many of the people arguing about terminology actually CLIMB desert corners?
speak up, bizzatchezzz.
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crotch
Mar 23, 2004, 6:46 PM
Post #39 of 61
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In reply to: and please, lets not turn this into a PC debate...thats just a 'LAME' (hey now theres a GOOD WORD!) attempt to dodge the issue.
Great, now we're making fun of the infirm.
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vertical_reality
Mar 23, 2004, 7:27 PM
Post #40 of 61
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In reply to: if you lieback while he is jamming it in your are both gay..
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Now thats funny.
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mreardon
Mar 23, 2004, 7:29 PM
Post #41 of 61
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In reply to: if you lieback while he is jamming it in your are both gay..
:D
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traddad
Mar 23, 2004, 7:33 PM
Post #42 of 61
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You know….I’m just NOT going to feel bad about disliking the use of race/national origin/sexual orientation as terms of derision. I think such usage is reprehensible and is evidence of a shallow thought process and the lack of evolution of character. Call me PC, call me a SNAG, call me a bleeding heart liberal….I’m all of those, and proud of it. Just don’t expect me to let it go by without comment.
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artofclimbing
Mar 23, 2004, 8:24 PM
Post #43 of 61
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i am very offended that you people are using the word 'gay' as an insult. i just dont believe that is right.
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mtnbkrxtrordnair
Mar 23, 2004, 10:03 PM
Post #44 of 61
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Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 267
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this website is gay, not that there's anything wrong with that
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reno
Mar 23, 2004, 10:17 PM
Post #45 of 61
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Lest we all forget, the first definition of "gay" in the dictionary (well, in my Webster's, anyway) is "happy or joyful."
Now, in a contextual sense, I agree with those that have expressed dissent: using the term "gay" to be derogatory as associated with homosexuality, is just plain wrong.
There are millions of words in the English language, several of which would have conveyed the same inteded meaning as the original post, but not nearly as offensive to people.
Enhance your vocabulary. It will do wonders for your future.
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tomchaps
Mar 23, 2004, 10:25 PM
Post #46 of 61
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Reading over the first post, that started all this:
"His arguement is that corners are a good bit easier laying the sucka back, if you climb it straight in, it's harder. To have 2 rating for a route in his opinion is gay, but to give it the lieback rating means that it would be sandbagged if you climbed it straight in."
I love this idea, and think we should all adopt it. Imagine, that nice 5.10 hand crack is also a 5.13, if you're not using hand jams. I can just hear it now, at the crags...
"What's that guy on?"
"It's a 5.10, but his footwork sucks, so we figure it's 5.12 at least."
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mreardon
Mar 23, 2004, 11:12 PM
Post #47 of 61
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In reply to: Lest we all forget, the first definition of "gay" in the dictionary (well, in my Webster's, anyway) is "happy or joyful." Now, in a contextual sense, I agree with those that have expressed dissent: using the term "gay" to be derogatory as associated with homosexuality, is just plain wrong. There are millions of words in the English language, several of which would have conveyed the same inteded meaning as the original post, but not nearly as offensive to people. Enhance your vocabulary. It will do wonders for your future.
Definitions are gay. :D
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angry
Mar 23, 2004, 11:43 PM
Post #48 of 61
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Kalcario, where do you live? If it is in CO, UT or somewhere near it, PM me and we'll climb cracks. I need you to show me how easy they are. I got a feeling you are a pretty worthless "bone wedger". Yes I am calling YOU out. Talk about those mired in 5.10
To all you PC nerds, I posted the word gay simply because that was the word used in the conversation. He never used the word lame, retarded, jewish, black, mormon, carpet-muncher, midget, or dentist. Had he used these terms, that is what I would have posted.
I suggest all you dweebs get over it. Me and my hetero climbing partner were laughing hysterically during most of this "arguement". Is this something that really should be discussed when sober? I think not.
My sig applies to everyone - read it, learn it, know it, believe it.
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bellatoris
Mar 24, 2004, 12:06 AM
Post #49 of 61
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"My sig applies to everyone - read it, learn it, know it, believe it.
_________________
I am cooler than you, and I can prove it!!!"
so you are saying that gay people are cooler than non gays.....i guess i am pretty warm....not that i have a problem with cool people like you.
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kalcario
Mar 24, 2004, 12:22 AM
Post #50 of 61
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*Kalcario, where do you live? If it is in CO, UT or somewhere near it, PM me and we'll climb cracks. I need you to show me how easy they are. I got a feeling you are a pretty worthless "bone wedger". Yes I am calling YOU out. Talk about those mired in 5.10*
Sorry-I got nothing to prove. My bone wedging tolerance was better back in the 80's when I lived and worked in YoValley. Used to do stuff like Astroman and the Rostrum, and show up for work the same day at 4:00, and wonder why I felt like I had'nt done anything. Now I know. Because that stuff is LIGHT. It takes less than zero effort to hang off a hand jam. There is no such thing as a 5.11 handcrack. You get a hand jam or a fingerlock on a sport climb and it knocks like 2 letter grades off the rating. It's the closest thing to a no-hands rest without actually letting go. A hands-off double kneebar burns more calories than a 2" hand jam. A 2" hand jam, you could pass out, go into a coma-and weeks later you would still be hanging there from your wedged appendage like a human fixed nut. They'd have to cut your hand off to rescue you, like Fingon did to Maedhros on the walls of Thangorodrim. Oh, uh, whoops...wrong user group.
Not that I'm denigrating crack climbing itself, mind you. I would'nt trade all the experiences I had in Yosemite for anything. It's just that compared to sport climbing IT SUCKS ASS.
I remember reading an interview with desert crack master Steve Hong in R&I years ago. He basically said that the climbing he had to do on his hard FA's at Indian Creek was "trivial" compared to the stuff he was doing in Rifle at the time. The bottom line is, it's just not steep enough, the movement is repetitive and monotonous, and you feel silly dicking around wiggling in pieces of metal when you could be actually pulling.
I will admit though that few things in the climbing world are as inspiring as a crack that just happens to be the same size as your hands and feet soaring up an otherwise blank wall. The aesthetics are definitely there.
It just hurts more than jug hauling.
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