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gunkiemike
Apr 21, 2004, 11:54 PM
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T2
Woulda been scored higher without that "very high powered camera" bit in there. But it looks like you filled your boat, so it's good enough.
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bigwalling
Apr 22, 2004, 12:48 AM
Post #27 of 37
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Ed, of course he wouldn't choose to do it now. I just didn't like the comment about staying home. It just rubbed me the wrong way.
As for him going up there. Well, I'm not sure Tomaz seems pretty nuts to me.
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epic_ed
Apr 22, 2004, 1:12 AM
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I think you've seen enough of my posts to know that by and large I'm a pretty humble, self-deprecating guy who rarely knocks anyone on their abilities or ambitions. This wasn't one of those times. Dude has earned whatever criticism comes his way for that set up.
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timpanogos
Apr 22, 2004, 2:05 AM
Post #29 of 37
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Question.
While working out in our gym – I know dumb for most – I was using the second bolt (actually pre-hung qd) as an OPPOSITIONAL (qd hanging down) with the focus being on the locker on the first bolt (single bolt anchor) being held in an optimal position.
One day, the owner comes by and notes – hey put that in EQUALIZATION not oppositional and you will not have to worry about the 2nd piece cross loading if the first fails as the qd now fires upward. Same situation as pictured here – single bolt “anchor” where your next 2 pieces want to be static (especially on those ½ angles in sandstone).
I’m assuming the optimal situation here would be for the first and second binners to be held upwards (2 equalized) by the third directional pointing downwards.
Here is my question –I’ve been using a QD on the 2nd bolt – for some reason – in my mind I think the “floppiness” factor of the qd adds a bit in your favor to not cross loading as pressure slaps it to full load. The QD’s are a bit stiffer than a regular runner – even left doubled.
This might be pure dream land on my part? But if nothing else – if that 2nd pin did not have the knot being involved with the pin/binner – rope jiggle as you climbed would increase the odds of the binner falling back into a more desirable position.
Do you guys carry a few qd’s on you? Would you have slinged/qd’ed that 2nd pin? Would you have pulled it tight upwards? Against the 3 pin binner pulling downwards?
Chad
p.s. in goofying around with this – I also ended up duct tapping the 3rd piece in the equalized position, letting the duct tape hold the weight of the slack loop.
This brought me full circle – you know how darn hard it is to get that 3 piece cord-a-let setup on natural pro (deck pitch is always natural pro) that is pointing upwards. You try holdling it in place as you climb for the 2nd placement before you can really get the 1st placement cloved in opposition.
By then your nuts have shifted, cams walked – you down climb re-adjust and repeat till happy.
When up playing on the peeler it finally struck me – DUCK TAPE the stupid cordalette in place as/when you set the anchor – don’t worry about the opposition to first piece – tape it up there good and climb.
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timpanogos
Apr 22, 2004, 3:07 AM
Post #30 of 37
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In empathy to the climber dude – I have come down to clean and gone – oh shizt – that’s scary stuff (slumped anchor). And sure – clove is the solution to everything. But I’ve found out – it can be hard to suck a clove segment super tight. Remember how surprised you were first time you tied a water knot and realized how much length the knot actually takes.
My guess here – the dude had the bottom segment synched real tight – biner down to start. As he climbed past – the rope pulled up, the knot slid up the spine into the pin – knot loosens – adding more slack and wham you have 1.5” bottom and 3” 2nd of slack.
This is kind of the same dilemma with the natural anchor/cord-a-let example I gave above. Where you can not totally secure your anchor until you have clipped into the 2nd piece above the anchor (single pin in this case). So yea you go, dang I want these first two in (synched in opposition) before I go for that third piece (2 piece anchor). And yet as you climb past that first piece, and are working on the 3rd – you look down and go, shizt the second binner shifted, my bottom guy is scary.
So here you go – feel like a gamble? Setup the second binner in equalization position – tape the rope to wall to hold it in place go for the top piece before you can secure the now 3 piece anchor. If you fall doing the top piece – cross load possible on your taped piece is present.
Not feeling lucky? Tie first two in opposition – get 3rd piece in, clip rope in upper so you can hold tension on it – pulling 2nd binner into equalization position and getting the length cloved off right – climb back up and clove the top in opposition position – sucking both lower pieces tigher upward. A little “flimsiness” in the first two, if upward pointing, can be synched by the directional.
Hey, I’ve done this dance, I know how damn easy that happens. How do you experts quickly dispatch this type of deal. Sure the guy should have down climbed and fixed things up .. well maybe … down climbing can be scarier than up. Say things looked great as you left that third tie-in. Hell you pulled it too tight actually (3rd to 2nd) allowing rope jiggle to finally let the 2nd knot pull up the spine. But now you are up 6 moves, off the ladder and one C3 stuff – if you can still see it at this point – it’s oh shixtski – tie off static here and start over your ff count over? Down climb and fix it? Say a few hell Maries and go for it?
Like I say, I can empathize.
Chad
P.S. emphany based on lessons learned in useless c0 gym aiding (grin).
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billcoe_
Apr 22, 2004, 3:14 AM
Post #31 of 37
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In reply to: BTW- This is an actual pic taken with a very high powered camera of someone soloing a trade route in Zion. Climb safe!! Cheers, Ammon
Ammon, if it was almost anyone else other than you I wouldn't believe it wasn't a setup.
Thanks for sharing, very clear and very good pic.
For the sake of argument, you think the stuff might have held anyway? Moderate to small fall? It all backs itself up and supports each of the other weak links....?
Bill
Like Tim said, shite happens. I've wondered what would happen if I came off while roped soloing and the rope wrapped around my neck. kind of makes for severe testicular shrinkage when you think of it. And with no one around......
Whew: SHRINKAGE!!
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timpanogos
Apr 22, 2004, 3:34 AM
Post #32 of 37
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Damn billco - thanks for sharing!
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ammon
Apr 22, 2004, 3:56 AM
Post #33 of 37
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In reply to: T2 Woulda been scored higher without that "very high powered camera" bit in there. But it looks like you filled your boat, so it's good enough.
I have... and never will be a troll. It's funny how when someone sees something unbelievable they think they are getting tricked.
I actually cropped the date out of this pic, so I wouldn't embarrass the person who set it up. But if you HAVE to know.... the shot was taken by my friend Dennis on March 25, 2004, the day before I got a five foot flake over my cranium. The person was climbing Touchstone Wall and seemed like a good climber, other than this anchor.
Hey, I might have been guilty of the same setup, in my learning curve. So, I'm not trying to knock anybody down.
I posted this so everyone can have a civil debate.... and maybe learn something from it.
In reply to: For the sake of argument, you think the stuff might have held anyway?
Yep, it most likely would have held anyway...... but, you never know.
Cheers, Ammon
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maculated
Apr 22, 2004, 5:10 AM
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And a good post it was Ammon. Shuddup all you naysayers, lest I banish your posts to the black hole.
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flamer
Apr 22, 2004, 5:21 AM
Post #35 of 37
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In reply to: And a good post it was Ammon. Shuddup all you naysayers, lest I banish your posts to the black hole.
OH THE POWER!!!!!
Funny how you start to remember certain bits of rock....I took one look at that pic and said- Touchstone...Although I'd say it was right off the deck?? Ie no need for high powered camera's....well was it???
josh
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crotch
Apr 22, 2004, 8:03 PM
Post #36 of 37
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Aside from all the crossloading, does anyone know of tests on the strength of drilled angles for upward pull? It seems like they're frequently angled down. I'd bet the numbers would be frightening.
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junnos
Apr 22, 2004, 8:45 PM
Post #37 of 37
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In reply to: T2 Woulda been scored higher without that "very high powered camera" bit in there. But it looks like you filled your boat, so it's good enough.
You obviously don't know Ammon.
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