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mtngypsy
Apr 23, 2002, 8:41 PM
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I'm no christian by anyone's definition, I grew up in catholic schools and got feed the full sandwich of biblical contradictions, the taste grew unpleasant.
My question is what the heck is with all the evanglical types, you know the one's that want to covert everybody, suddenly taking up climbing. They have climbing walls at all their camps now, I've seen people doing little prayer sessions at the base of crags, even the threads on this site, WOW!
Climbing to me was always been the realm of the subverted few that had little use for most of our normal social constructs. So what the "hell" draws these religious types that are snap shots of social normality to climbing.
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rockwomyn
Apr 23, 2002, 8:52 PM
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Didn't you know that it's a new undercover operation....didn't you know climbers are heathens that must and will be converted. Be on the look out at any and all crags you go to. They are lurking, just waiting to kidnap and reprogram you as a soldier for christ. TRUST NO ONE!!!
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hardcoredana
Apr 23, 2002, 8:56 PM
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I'm a heathen!!!!
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missedyno
Apr 23, 2002, 10:18 PM
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so am i...
imagine the day when we have people trying to convert us by offering us literature on their faith while leading the climb next to us?
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kriso9tails
Apr 23, 2002, 11:19 PM
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That's not how it works... just think, if they converted old holidays to sell the people, then they'll convert the actual act of climbing into a Christian ritual. Tie the sacred rope into the blessed harness and try not to take the lord's name in vain too much on God's holy 5.14c.
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bkpkrn
Apr 24, 2002, 7:56 AM
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Its the new plan the Vatican came up with. Send a bunch of undercover Jesuits to convert more people for molestation.
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rockwomyn
Apr 24, 2002, 1:48 PM
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honestly though.....there are some evangilistic groups that have been training missionaries to go under cover in palestine and afghanistan to help convert muslims to christianity. It is believed by these people that the second coming of christ will not occur until all muslims are converted. Sheesh!!!! do they leave anyone alone, those christians.
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mountainrat
Apr 24, 2002, 2:36 PM
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Afterlife? After what?!?! It never ends, the cycle, so there is no afterlife- it keeps on happening. In an infinite system, all possibilities must happen eventually. Therefore, atoms trapped in beings able to contemplate their own consciousness will end up in like creatures again after the whole decomposition dance, man. The closest I come to "religion" is a mix of Mahayana/Tibetan Buddhism and Wicca.
p.s.- Rocwomyn, your killing me, girl! Hahaha. You rock. And climbchic- "heartburn for three days..." HAHAHAHA! Thanks for the belly laugh, my Tennessee sister! HAhaha. Live long and prosper, all.
[ This Message was edited by: mountainrat on 2002-04-24 07:41 ]
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mountainrat
Apr 24, 2002, 2:43 PM
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Consider that atoms are mostly empty space, man, then check the Buddhist principle of "emptiness," then slide your hand straight into the rock- ya gotta believe, man. Makes a friggin' BOMBER jam.
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missedyno
Apr 24, 2002, 3:38 PM
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whoa man, that was way deep!
and the only baptism i'll go for is the skinnydipping into the lake (keep your beer above water) to get the climbing sweat off!
climb on
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jules
Apr 24, 2002, 7:53 PM
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Thought I'd stick this in one of the religion-oriented threads...
Quote:
From "The Sirens of Titan" by Kurt Vonnegut...
Once upon a time on Tralfamadore there were creatures who weren't anything like machines. They weren't dependable. They weren't efficient. They weren't predictable. They weren't durable. And these poor creatures were obsessed by the idea that everything that existed had to have a purpose, and that some purposes were higher than others.
These creatures spent most of their time trying to find out what their purpose was. And every time they found out what seemed to be a purpose of themselves, the purpose seemed so low that the creatures were filled with disgust and shame.
And, rather than serve such a low purpose, the creatures would make a machine to serve it. This left the creatures free to serve higher purposes. But whenever they found a higher purposes, the purpose still wasn't high enough. So machines were made to serve higher purposes, too.
And machines did everything so expertly that they were finally given the job of finding out what the highest purpose of these creatures could be.
The machines reported in all honesty that the creatures couldn't really be said to have any purpose at all.
The creatures thereupon began slaying each other, because they hated purposeless things above all else.
And they discovered that they weren't even very good at slaying. So they turned that job over to the machines, too. And the machines finished up the job in less time than it takes to say "Tralfamadore."
...
[ This Message was edited by: juliana on 2002-04-24 13:14 ]
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climbchick
Apr 24, 2002, 8:09 PM
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hahahaha, that pretty much seems to sum up my perspective. Vonnegut rocks!!!!
It's all just a big coincidence . . .
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hardcoredana
Apr 24, 2002, 9:05 PM
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w00t
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dynamic
Apr 24, 2002, 9:21 PM
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Please don't kill me for posting in here:)
I'm wondering what, exactly, happens in your mind when someone mentions or defends (or preaches about) "God". Pure curiosity. What are some of the biggest reasons to hate this particular faith? I won't defend myself here (unless you tell me to)... tear me apart. There is clearly hostility in the air coming from some of you. Lets have it out so I (and perhaps other religious types) can think about it.
Thanks,
d
[ This Message was edited by: dynamic on 2002-04-24 14:22 ]
[ This Message was edited by: dynamic on 2002-04-24 14:23 ]
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climbchick
Apr 24, 2002, 9:45 PM
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Well, since you asked . . .
When somebody mentions God to me, I get a little uncomfortable, A) because I think it's kinda weird and B) because I'm worried that I'll accidentally offend them. So I just try to change the subject usually. Can't say I "hate" Christianity, but my frank opinion (since you asked) is that it seems to be full of more hypocrites than any other religious group I've encountered. I'm pretty laid-back for the most part, though, so I really don't care what other people believe in, (AS LONG AS they're not trying to convert me). Don't have any respect whatsoever for hypocrites (church on Sunday, get drunk & beat the wife on Monday). If someone truly believes that stuff and "practices what they preach", I have no problems with it. But most of the Christians I've ever met routinely break the Ten Commandments.
My only other objection is that the Christians always appear to forcing their views on the rest of us. One thing that really irks me is that fact that in many states it's illegal to buy alcohol on Sundays. And/or the bars are closed. What's that all about??
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dynamic
Apr 24, 2002, 10:15 PM
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I'm don't have much knowledge of state laws. I'm guessing, though, that if states don't allow such sales on sunday that it is out of traditional ethical views that the day is "set apart" as a day of reflection and rest, religious pursuit, etc.
Good point about hypocracy. (may I venture a comment about that?)
edit- *hypocrisy*
[ This Message was edited by: dynamic on 2002-04-24 15:16 ]
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jules
Apr 24, 2002, 10:23 PM
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I'm sure one of the religious people out there is going to shoot me for this, but it's the easiest way to put it in perspective...
My younger sister still believes in Santa Clause. At Christmas-time, I'll just play along with all the talk of Santa and Rudolph and the like, though I personally don't believe. In my mind, he doesn't exist; but if she wants to believe, why try to make her think otherwise? I nod and smile and go with it for her sake.
I feel the same way when someone speaks to me about God; I'm not inclined to say "I don't believe in God," or anything like that- it's not like it upsets me. It's just someone else viewing something in a way separate from how I do.
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kriso9tails
Apr 25, 2002, 3:00 AM
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It's got nothing to do with Christianity really; it's just the stupidity of some few people that speads dogmatically through many faiths. You know, that one bad apple and what not. I agree with a theory (there are many) on evolution. There are many evolutionists that piss me right off because they're so self-righteous, yet they don't seem to have the slightest clue as to what they're talking about. I know a very petty Taoist... how does that work? I know several very flakey wiccans who hardly seem to believe anything, except for that they must at any cost be more spiritual and at one with nature thatn any one else, which makes no sense whatsoever when you think about it. How can being one with nature be an elitist pursuit. I hate wannabes. True that at least 70% of humans are probably just sheep... but even sheep have open belifs. Wannabes have beliefs, but they're always falsely representing others. Christianity is a popular faith, so there just happens to be more of these wannabes wandering about. Please understand, I am very reluctant to treat even suspected posers differently, because it's hard to tell if somebody truly believes, and it's not my place to tell them what they believe, but some people still disgust me. The tell tale signs are usually a big mouth backed by a fist full of ignorance and misguided passion/ desire/ greed.
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inflight
Apr 25, 2002, 2:46 PM
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Make love and acsents not Holy War. Agnostic.
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bcmtngrrrl
Apr 25, 2002, 9:12 PM
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I'm gonna have to side with climbchick, objective word being hypocrite. Organized religion is a crutch. No one is gonna save you but yourself. I have one simple rule to live by, be a good person. You don't need a church to do it. It's all about karma, my life is as good as it gets, and the only person I have to thank for that is myself. Do you think god is gonna save all those priests who molest little boys and ruin their lives? Repent on your deathbed ....repent! Repent! Bullshit!
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bkpkrn
Apr 26, 2002, 5:50 AM
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In response to dyanmic's Q.
I agree with climberchick about the hypocracy. I have no problem with people who practice what they preach, but it seems rarely the case with christianity. I'm a very open minded person and have gone to church with freinds who have asked me to give it a try. I will listen respectfully and debate with people I feel close to. However, many people I don't know very well have tried to discuss religion with me and shown themselves to be total hypocrates. Now whenever someone I don't know well brings up the subject, I automatically think, "sh*t, not this again."
If you want to discuss my personal veiws, go ahead and private message me.
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ravens_wing_jim
Apr 26, 2002, 6:09 AM
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If space is infinite, and I think its
pretty safe to say it is.
And please dont give me any of that "space
is actually curved", "you see, the universe
is still expanding blah..blah..blah."
Because that type of thinking, is not
thinking beyond the wall.
What I mean is, space is infinite, forever.
If the universe is growing, what is it
growing inside of?
If there is a wall that says DEAD END, whats
on the other side of the wall?
And that brings me back to this,
If space is infinite then,(hold on to your
seats kidds)anything you can imagine, actually exists out there somewhere.
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cook
Apr 26, 2002, 3:30 PM
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The truth of the matter is, I don't concern myself with religion unless someone confronts me or tries to convert me. I just don't really care and a "God" does not factor into my daily decision making. However, I do subscribe to evolution and have been posting in the religious websites....mainly because I think the debate is fun.
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mountainrat
Apr 30, 2002, 8:37 PM
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Exactly, Ravens_wing. Exactly. If something is imagined, then it does have an existence- we all know what dragons are, though none exist in physical reality as far as we can tell. Maybe everything we experience is only these second hand thoughts- blips in something's imagination. The question then becomes, "If a thing exists in an imagination, with a consciousness, does it actually HAVE a consciousness?" If so, then dragons with minds of their own are flying about inside my skull...
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spike_in_milton
Apr 30, 2002, 10:30 PM
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I'm a heathen and a spiritual pagan... gave up on organized wicca years ago after being heavily involved. You can't get three of those people together in one place without politics starting to fly everywhere .
Still wear the pentacle though, and have for over twenty years.
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