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paulraphael
Jun 22, 2004, 10:03 PM
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In reply to: [quote="madrivera certain age are metabolism slows down ....we don't process carbs well.
Cite, please? Carbohydrates are not at all hard to digest, as far as I know.
Rob
All the research I've seen supports that carbs (particularly complex ones) are the easiest of the food groups to digest. Never seen evidence anywhere that we lose the ability to digest them as we get old. they're not like milk. or keg beer.
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madriver
Jun 22, 2004, 10:17 PM
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...In reply to: Atkins and Similar Diets by Allan Spreen, M.D. What is your opinion of the Robert Atkins Revolution Diet (low-carb diet)? No diet is right for everyone, but I have a lot of respect for this one. I have seen amazing weight loss from a plan that at first I thought was nuts. I have become more convinced that a huge majority of us have problems with carbohydrates, made even worse by the fact that most of our sugars and starches (carbohydrates) are highly refined. This does away with invaluable fiber, along with the nutrients required to assimilate that carbohydrate. Robert Atkins, M.D., bypasses the problem (in the early phases of his diet) by doing away with carbs all together. Then he adds back small amounts of unrefined carbohydrates. The idea is to keep people in a state of "ketosis" (not ketoacidosis), so that their bodies preferentially burn fat over carbs. He also believes in high-dose nutrient supplements (which gets him on my side right away, as I don't believe the standard American diet is adequate for optimum health). Some people get constipated in the early stages of the plan and need added fiber supplements. Others just don't like taking in so much protein and fat, believing that the low-fat craze is preferable. High-protein diets are worth learning about, whether you use them or not. Good Health, A.N. Spreen, M.D.
...looking for more...but I should have said refined starches and carbs..
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robmcc
Jun 22, 2004, 10:21 PM
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That's a short opinion. In my opinion, proper nutrition requires consumption of one gallon of gasoline per day.
Now that we've dispensed with opinions, how about some science?
Rob
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madriver
Jun 22, 2004, 10:33 PM
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robmcc wrote:
In reply to: That's a short opinion. In my opinion, proper nutrition requires consumption of one gallon of gasoline per day. Now that we've dispensed with opinions, how about some science? Rob
...actually I think if you combined the gas with the urea you would create a thick glue...which would then redefine the term "pissing razorblades"
bob
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organic
Jun 23, 2004, 2:38 AM
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How come all the skinny people eat tons of carbs? I know they did a study but I did not make an effort to look for it, that skinny people eat more carbs than fat people. Does that make any sense? I think the best way to lose weight is become a vegetarian. But then again most people would rather eat a bacon cheese burger without the bun, haha.
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organic
Jun 23, 2004, 2:40 AM
Post #31 of 91
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In reply to: ... In reply to: Atkins and Similar Diets by Allan Spreen, M.D. What is your opinion of the Robert Atkins Revolution Diet (low-carb diet)? No diet is right for everyone, but I have a lot of respect for this one. I have seen amazing weight loss from a plan that at first I thought was nuts. I have become more convinced that a huge majority of us have problems with carbohydrates, made even worse by the fact that most of our sugars and starches (carbohydrates) are highly refined. This does away with invaluable fiber, along with the nutrients required to assimilate that carbohydrate. Robert Atkins, M.D., bypasses the problem (in the early phases of his diet) by doing away with carbs all together. Then he adds back small amounts of unrefined carbohydrates. The idea is to keep people in a state of "ketosis" (not ketoacidosis), so that their bodies preferentially burn fat over carbs. He also believes in high-dose nutrient supplements (which gets him on my side right away, as I don't believe the standard American diet is adequate for optimum health). Some people get constipated in the early stages of the plan and need added fiber supplements. Others just don't like taking in so much protein and fat, believing that the low-fat craze is preferable. High-protein diets are worth learning about, whether you use them or not. Good Health, A.N. Spreen, M.D. ...looking for more...but I should have said refined starches and carbs..
Yeah and high protein diets have been proven to cause kidney stones and other problems.
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madriver
Jun 23, 2004, 2:53 AM
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..the Atkins Diet is like smoking...if you don't like it...don't do it...but STFU otherwise!!!!!!!
love
mr :D
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climbsomething
Jun 23, 2004, 6:05 AM
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In reply to: How come all the skinny people eat tons of carbs? I know they did a study but I did not make an effort to look for it, that skinny people eat more carbs than fat people. Does that make any sense? I think the best way to lose weight is become a vegetarian. But then again most people would rather eat a bacon cheese burger without the bun, haha.
This is, of course, purely anecdotal. I think I am more lucky than anything.
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curt
Jun 23, 2004, 6:43 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: How come all the skinny people eat tons of carbs? I know they did a study but I did not make an effort to look for it, that skinny people eat more carbs than fat people. Does that make any sense? I think the best way to lose weight is become a vegetarian. But then again most people would rather eat a bacon cheese burger without the bun, haha. I am poor, have killer metabolism, and am active. Take away my spaghetti, cheerios and ramen and I would starve to death. This is, of course, purely anecdotal. I think I am more lucky than anything.
Hah. I've seen her put away plenty of grease in numerous mexican restaurants and steak houses near El Paso.
Curt
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hugepedro
Jun 23, 2004, 7:02 AM
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The best way to lose weight is to climb mountains. I lost 5 pounds this week. I'll gain it all back with breakfast burritos, green please. (God I'm loving New Mexico!)
This low-carb business is a bunch of bull dookey. I know because anything that takes really crappy beer and makes it even crappier cannot be good. Wait, it could just be a joke on people who drink crappy beer. I think I might like that.
Really. I think your body has a certain mass that it knows it should be. If you're over it, you know it. If you're under it, you know it. If you're right in it, you are one sexy beeeotch, cause you're in it and you know it. Other than that it's the simplest of formulas. Eat less, burn more. It works.
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ullr
Jun 23, 2004, 10:56 AM
Post #37 of 91
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Keep it simple.
Calories consumed>calories needed=your ass is getting bigger.
Calories consumed
We fat Americans are always looking for a way to avoid exercise. :roll:
This is not rocket science. Everything in moderation. Except climbing, of course.
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chupa
Jun 23, 2004, 1:54 PM
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I think it's more of an advertising plus for most companies. I recently saw a commercial for Tony Roma's "low carb" meals. They sell ribs and steak. It's always been low carb over there but now they have a marketing twist. It really is a great marketing ploy for a "healthy" outlook on something that generally isn't. It's just a fad, it will pass when the next best thing comes along. Wait for my new book "Chupa's Low Fat Guide to Losing Weight W/O the Fat!" It'll be revolutionary.
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bumblie
Jun 23, 2004, 2:03 PM
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In reply to: It's just a fad
Ding ding ding!
We have a winner!
Proving, yet again, that sometimes less is more.
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nthusiastj
Jun 23, 2004, 2:32 PM
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Man I LOVE fad diets!
What's more fun to laugh at than people suffering through the newest diet. Go on the Atkins diet, South Beach diet, Hollywood diet, Grapefruit diet, and sweat to the oldies with that annoying gay guy. Starve yourself and binge later. I don't care.
Hmm, funny. While I was typing this a pop-up for low carb food came on my screen. Yeah, that's annoying...
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wideguy
Jun 23, 2004, 2:33 PM
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In reply to: Keep it simple. Calories consumed>calories needed=your ass is getting bigger. Calories consumed
We fat Americans are always looking for a way to avoid exercise. :roll:
This is not rocket science. Everything in moderation. Except climbing, of course.
And here we have a perfect example of how the Atkins diet is misunderstood.
Read his book, he says that EXACT thing. He advocates 30 minutes of aerobic activity at least 3x a week. The BIG key to his diet is hunger. Many people find that protein satiates them in smaller amounts and keeps them from being hungry longer, hence THEY REDUCE THEIR OVERALL CALORIE INTAKE WITHOUT FEELING HUNGRY ALL THE TIME! For many people, like myself, short of living on a diet of rice cakes, no other diet has ever dealt with my hunger this way and allowed me to drop my overall calorie consumption into what is considered the recommended range. I snack less because I'm hungry less.
As for the arguement that you need large amounts of carbs to participate in sports, it's all a matter of levels. Sure, marathoners, regular mid-distance runners, long distance cyclists all may need more carbs but you average everyday joe sixpack that plays maybe one p/u BBall game on the weekends, or your AVERAGE climber (because let's face it, NOT and aerobic activity) does not. I have a good friend, cycles over 300 miles a week now, lost over 100 on Atkins and is now in "Lifetime Maintenance" He eats a ton of veggies, and fruit, lean meats etc, just skips the bread and potatoes and corn, which to be honest, are all basically devoid of nutrition anyway. Tell him he needs a spaghetti breakfact before he goes to ride a century this weekend. He'll laugh in your face.
Now some people's bodies can't handle the change, alot of people go into it all wrong. And Hillary is exactly right. It ain't cheap. Ramen's and prince spaghetti and Doritoes and all that is ALOT cheper than chicken and steak and pork loin. That is another legit factor against the diet
As for me, I find the Atkins keeps my energy levels more constant. While my partners are swinging throughpeaks and crashes caused by their diets and they're sucking down Clif bars every 30 mintes, I eat a good breakfast, pack a good lunch, have 1/3 cup of almonds if I get knoshy, and I'm good. It works for me and so far my DOCTOR (You know, the actual MD, not just a guy who took a nutrition class in college and reads Shape and Men's Fitness) tends to agree.
Oh, and as for the comment about the heightened presence on TV, I call BULL___T!!
Check out the TV someday. Jenny Craig, Weight Watcher's, Slim Fast, Hydroxycut, Dexatrim, LA Weight Loss, etc. etc. etc. etc.
All the low carb stuff is just catching up.
Like MR said, if you don't like it, don't use it. But for some of us, and a hugely growing number every day, it works where others failed and as my doctor said, "It's for damn sure better than being 300lbs. with all that goes along with that."
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atg200
Jun 23, 2004, 2:58 PM
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30 minutes of fat people walking on treadmills 3 times a week is why there are so many fat people in the usa.
i have lost about 40 pounds in the last 6 months after 5 years of not being able to lose the weight. i did it simply by no longer eating fast food, no longer eating processed food(basically i only eat food that has identifiable ingredients), and engaging in aerobic activity 6-7 days a week. 3 times a week for very little time never did anything to change my metabolism - getting out there every day has, even if it is only for 30 minutes.
i am as busy as anyone and it is probably harder for me to eat well since i am on the road 80% of the time and have to eat at restaurants or mine cafeterias, but i managed. people are just really lazy, period, end of story. i was no exception in my fat boy days.
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the_pirate
Jun 23, 2004, 3:07 PM
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In reply to: i did it simply by no longer eating fast food, no longer eating processed food(basically i only eat food that has identifiable ingredients),
http://www.supersizeme.com/
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paulraphael
Jun 23, 2004, 3:36 PM
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By the way, that passage quoting Dr. Allan Spreen, whoever that is, IS NOT evidence of anything. When asking for evidence of the effects of a diet, a drug, an exercise technique, or whatever, heresay, even by someone with a title, means nothing.
Point to some research. If you want the straight dope, go to the national library of medicine pubmed website and find the actual results of peer reviewed studied. it's tedious, it's often technical, and its rarely sensationalistic, but guess what: it's the real world.
If you don't have it bookmarked already, here's where your first stop should be to verify any potential hokum you read on the web or see on fox news:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi
be specific with your search terms; it's not as clever as google
I'll add a couple of more points to my previous list:
FACT: Most medical school programs have ZERO requirements for training in nutrition. So most doctors that you see (in person or in quotation marks) are barely more qualified to tell you about nutrition than anyone else.
FACT: Many states have ZERO requirements or qualifications for the title of Nutritionist. Which means that any bozo can hang out a shingle, call themselves a nutritionist, print business cards, write a book, and get quoted on some badly researched website.
FACT: Case law in the United States (based on the first ammendment) makes it almost impossible to sue someone for or stop someone from publishing bogus information (as long as the information isn't libelous). So, I can call myself a Nutritionist, publish a book on the New Miracle Gasoline and Hog Fat diet, and get rich, and if your gullible kid dies from it, you probably won't be able to sue me. Caveat Emptor.
(if i sell you coffee that's too hot, i probably won't be so lucky).
CONJECTURE: The best place to find nutritional info is from people who clearly cite published studies, and who have serious real world track record. Some of the dieticians and physiologists who who have worked with US Olympic teams are good sources. Many of them (like Dr. Edmund Burke, who was physiologist with US Cycling for many years) have published books. Something you'll notice: All these guys advocate the basically the same thing, because all the real research points in the same direction. They all slam Atkins, The Zone, and all the other fads, because these diets are all proveably horseshite.
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jt512
Jun 23, 2004, 3:42 PM
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In reply to: But one cannot deny the fact that excessive carbohydrate intale without suffieient exercise causes those calories to be stored as body fat.
Actually, that's untrue, except among people with impaired carbohydrate metabolism. For most people, if they consume more calories than they burn, practically all the carbohydrate they eat is burned for energy; it's the fat in their diet that gets stored as body fat.
-Jay
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jt512
Jun 23, 2004, 3:56 PM
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In reply to: Anybody else want a bagel and a baked potato? :angel:
Obviously, you mean one of those low-carb bagels that taste like moistened cardboard and a low-carb potato, which has been developed and will soon be on the market. Yes, a low-carb potato. Not kidding.
-Jay
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jt512
Jun 23, 2004, 4:00 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: How come all the skinny people eat tons of carbs? I know they did a study but I did not make an effort to look for it, that skinny people eat more carbs than fat people. Does that make any sense? I think the best way to lose weight is become a vegetarian. But then again most people would rather eat a bacon cheese burger without the bun, haha. I am poor, have killer metabolism, and am active. Take away my spaghetti, cheerios and ramen and I would starve to death. This is, of course, purely anecdotal. I think I am more lucky than anything. Hah. I've seen her put away plenty of grease in numerous mexican restaurants and steak houses near El Paso. Curt
I've seen her put away so much grease that I couuldn't get her drunk with 3 margaritas. After one of her Mexican food meals, the poor alcohol doesn't have a chance.
-Jay
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the_pirate
Jun 23, 2004, 4:26 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: But one cannot deny the fact that excessive carbohydrate intale without suffieient exercise causes those calories to be stored as body fat. Actually, that's untrue, except among people with impaired carbohydrate metabolism. For most people, if they consume more calories than they burn, practically all the carbohydrate they eat is burned for energy; it's the fat in their diet that gets stored as body fat. -Jay
Actually, it is true. Carbohydrates are the easiest of the three for the body to digest. Therefore they get broken down first. If you are taking in more carbohydrates than you are burning (as most americans do), your body breaks them down but is never called upon to burn them. Therefore they get stored in the form of body fat. Fat is the most difficult for the body to digest and it only gets used after all the carbohydrates have been burned up. Most of the fat you eat goes straight out the pooper.
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