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rioclimb
Jun 26, 2004, 9:14 PM
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I'm not a climbing expert but this week i went to maple canyon, UT and somebody left their draws hanging for at least week on a 12.a route that is kind of popular in the area. is that common procedure? would you use those draws or would you rather have yours on route?
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andy_reagan
Jun 26, 2004, 9:15 PM
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use em! Less effort clipping in preplaced draws!
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bighead
Jun 26, 2004, 9:22 PM
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ya it's pretty common especially on harder routes. Use them all you want on the route just make sure they are still there when you leave.
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rioclimb
Jun 26, 2004, 9:42 PM
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ok but is 12.a hard enough to leave them there? it's not that hard to clean.
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buttets
Jun 26, 2004, 9:45 PM
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Yes, it is common. Does that make it right - no! You should not leave your draws on a route for that long in a popular area. Sure you can use them, but not sure I would - who knows how old or what shape they are in???
Climbers can be rude and lazy to...
I always clean my route for the day - who knows what could happen and you can't make it back for 2 weeks??? Besides you only get stronger and learn the route better if you try and lead it at the start of each new day....
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caughtinside
Jun 26, 2004, 9:50 PM
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To answer your question: No, I would not leave my draws on a popular 12a.
However, I would consider leaving them on a 12a at a place no one else climbed. And if I found draws on a popular 12a I'd climb on them. Regardless, anyone who takes them down is a thief.
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cgailey
Jun 26, 2004, 9:56 PM
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In reply to: ok but is 12.a hard enough to leave them there? it's not that hard to clean.
You talk big for someone who tops out at 10c...not that I'm any better... :wink:
But it is more curteous to remove your gear...someone may be going for a clean redpoint of that route and have to deal with your gear.
Would I clip someone else's draws...most likely, but I would get a clean look at them first.
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roughster
Jun 26, 2004, 10:06 PM
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I really think the key is the location: Rifle/AF/Maple/Sinks etc... Yeah w/o a problem. Williamson, NJC, Owens, etc.... Nope.
Hmm so I guess the real question is if the area is in California or not :lol: If the answer to that question is yes, then the answer as to whether or not you should leave your draws on is no :mrgreen:
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rioclimb
Jun 26, 2004, 10:06 PM
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it's not that i talk big but i have some goals (climbing) :D . i know i don't climb that hard but it hasn't been six months yet. i am really happy i onsighted my first 5.11 last week.
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cgailey
Jun 26, 2004, 11:49 PM
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In reply to: it's not that i talk big but i have some goals (climbing) :D . i know i don't climb that hard but it hasn't been six months yet. i am really happy i onsighted my first 5.11 last week.
I'm just bustin' your chops man...nice work on the 5.11!
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asandh
Jun 27, 2004, 2:55 AM
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:)
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ikefromla
Jun 27, 2004, 3:49 AM
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In reply to: it's not that i talk big but i have some goals (climbing) :D . i know i don't climb that hard but it hasn't been six months yet. i am really happy i onsighted my first 5.11 last week.
OH, and Roughster, what about Jailhouse? That's a leave-draws-hangin area fo sho, and it's in CA. :wink:
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cgailey
Jun 27, 2004, 4:20 AM
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In reply to: And there is no such thing as a "clean redpoint," in terms of pre-placed draws or not, on a sport route.
This is and will continue to be an issue of much debate...think what you want. I do not consider clipping pre-placed draws a redpoint.
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caughtinside
Jun 27, 2004, 4:25 AM
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In reply to: I do not consider clipping pre-placed draws a redpoint. |
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zombikev
Jun 27, 2004, 4:37 AM
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I think its very dependant on the location, type of climb, and how the route climbs. If its overhanging and hard to clean, or if the route wanders, i think in some cases its common practice to leave the draws for other people to utilize. If its an obscure place and someone might not revisit or replace some of your left draws once they become "used" i think it would be in the best interest to remove them with your best effort possible.
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cgailey
Jun 27, 2004, 4:58 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I do not consider clipping pre-placed draws a redpoint. Then you have missedthepoint. :P
If you can place pro on the large majority of sport routes then I'm in awe of your wizard like abilities and I will make the pilgrimage to become your disciple.
I haven't missed the point... :wink:
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caughtinside
Jun 27, 2004, 5:00 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I do not consider clipping pre-placed draws a redpoint. Then you have missedthepoint. :P If you can place pro on the large majority of sport routes then I'm in awe of your wizard like abilities and I will make the pilgrimage to become your disciple. I haven't missed the point... :wink:
Excellent. I am in need of a new disciple since I removed the eye of the last one when she was insolent.
I have this power to place pro on sport routes. I call this pro 'quickdraws' :lol:
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cgailey
Jun 27, 2004, 5:05 AM
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Hehe...you are a harsh wizard...
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pbjosh
Jun 27, 2004, 7:09 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: And there is no such thing as a "clean redpoint," in terms of pre-placed draws or not, on a sport route. This is and will continue to be an issue of much debate...think what you want. I do not consider clipping pre-placed draws a redpoint.
This is because you probably don't climb very hard (no offense, just a fact, not saying I do) and probably don't have any experience projecting or, worse, cleaning a steep route.
No one will argue that hanging draws makes the ascent more difficult, it does.
But the logistics of it makes it less enjoyable, it doesn't add to the climbing, and moreover is a pain in the ass. Go clean draws off something severely overhanging sometime and you'll see why draws stay on hard routes between attempts.
Call it what you will but pre-hung draws are a standard and that won't change anytime soon.
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telemarkist
Jun 27, 2004, 7:42 AM
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don't you guy worry that leaving veritcal trash around will inflame non climbing types , causing even more bolting restrictions, or the loss of whole areas like cave rock up by tahoe? when I started climbing there was no access issues at all, but after sport climbing became popular there seems to be new access problems all over. every areas ethics are different but I don't think the nonclimbing population will view slings and draws left at any area as acceptable, they don't know or care how hard it is to clean the stuff, it's just some sort of trash up there.
this isn't something I would do as I don't work routes, and will need them on the next climb I'll be doing. do what you like it only effects me when I can't go there anymore, at that point we're all bummed
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flipnfall
Jun 27, 2004, 12:10 PM
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I've never left my draws on a climb and then walked away. I've had people steal my stuff WAY too often to be that foolish. By the way, 12a is not so difficult that a person can leave their draws and expect that no one can climb and take them.
GT
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roughster
Jun 27, 2004, 12:51 PM
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In reply to: I've never left my draws on a climb and then walked away. I've had people steal my stuff WAY too often to be that foolish. By the way, 12a is not so difficult that a person can leave their draws and expect that no one can climb and take them. GT
It isn't that people think that 12a is not "so hard" where people can't get them off, its that people expect those who are climbing at least 12a to understand "why" they are there in the 1st place and have enough respect for that to leave them alone.
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rioclimb
Jun 27, 2004, 3:47 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: it's not that i talk big but i have some goals (climbing) :D . i know i don't climb that hard but it hasn't been six months yet. i am really happy i onsighted my first 5.11 last week. excuse me, but if you have not even been climbing for six months, how do you feel qualified to say whether or not such a common and ACCEPTED sport climbing practice is OK or not? And there is no such thing as a "clean redpoint," in terms of pre-placed draws or not, on a sport route. OH, and Roughster, what about Jailhouse? That's a leave-draws-hangin area fo sho, and it's in CA. :wink:
Excuse me but if you can read the forum title you will see it's a question and i'm not saying that it's ok or that it's not ok to leave the draws hanging there, i'm asking. I have seen my friends climb that route many times and always clean it because this particular one is not that hard to clean.
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asandh
Jun 27, 2004, 4:16 PM
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:)
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mcfoley
Jun 27, 2004, 4:57 PM
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No, I prefer to donate them to the slavation army or the good will...
lol
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