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tootainted
Jun 28, 2004, 11:17 AM
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I have been climbing rigerously just over a year now and I have found that I can not obtain muscle failure nearly as often as i used to. Big dyno's and super weighted hooks and toes seem to be the only thing that will create muscle failure.
What i was wondering is if it was safe to boulder with added weight to obtain the muscle failure needed for muscle reconstructive gains?
I normaly will spend my first hour climbing just warming up and stretching then follow that by and hour of sending V1 - V3/4 with added 10 lbs divers belt. Then work on Dyno's and side projects for the remaining 3 hours i climb then warm down and stretch.
I only boulder, if i need to work endurance i do it in the cave. We are supose to get a large method wall in august so i want to hold of on training on fingerboards or campus boards. I feel the method wall will be safer anyway . . .
Right now i am climbing 3 times a week, tuesday, thursday(or firday), saturday(or sunday).
Any thoughts on climbing with 10 extra pounds to get some muscle failure, or is failure good only up to a certain point in ones climbing life ?
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hippie_dreams
Jun 28, 2004, 11:42 AM
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To get a good work out I've climbed with a back pack with about 15-20lbs. in it. When I do this I pretty much only use jugs though, that would suck to pull a tendon on a crimper or pocket because of the extra weight.
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tootainted
Jun 28, 2004, 11:50 AM
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That is why i am trying to stick with 10 lbs. I seem to be able to do crimpers ok even pinches. I stay away from the pockets. I only just started to try and incorperate the wieght into my training. I just didnt know how safe it was to do it OR if it would actually reap me any benifits.
I know on a method wall you can go up to 40 lbs, but will have to wait to see where i stand on that.
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rockprodigy
Jun 28, 2004, 2:32 PM
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That is why I train on a hangboard...but most people wouldn't like it.
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angry
Jun 28, 2004, 2:42 PM
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Are you doing this for a workout? Or to get to be a better climber.
It looks like you've reached that point where climbing isn't the best workout, so do something else if you just want to hammer your muscles. If you want to get better, climb harder routes.
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tootainted
Jun 28, 2004, 6:24 PM
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fshizzle wrote:
"Are you doing this for a workout? Or to get to be a better climber."
I climb to become a better climber.
"It looks like you've reached that point where climbing isn't the best workout, so do something else if you just want to hammer your muscles. If you want to get better, climb harder routes."
I have been projecting V7 - V9's but realize that strength is holding me back, that is why i want to climb with the 10 extra pounds on my butt to develop my muscles faster than just climbing.
I climb 5 to 8 hours at a time i think that is more than enough. I just didnt know if any else had tried to boulder with extra weight and actually see results faster than not. Or if i should just hold off for the method wall to be constructed.
I am a skinny dude. At 5' 11" i only weigh 135, so i am not trying to bulk up but rather rebuild my muscles for climbing.
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rocdaug
Jun 28, 2004, 6:58 PM
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I'm not sure I understand what your problem is...
So, you saying that you climb as hard as you can for 5-8 hours at a time and you can't achieve muscle failure? ...I don't see the problem here. 8^)
if i could do that, I'd be a climbing freak instead of stuck here in front of my keyboard trying to make a living. :wink:
either you're not climbing hard enough stuff or your not climbing sustained or you've been bitten by a spider while visiting the lab. :P
rd
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nthusiastj
Jun 28, 2004, 7:56 PM
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The book "Training for Climbing" has interesting views on this. You should pick it up if you are serious about improving your strength.
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climbinginchico
Jun 28, 2004, 8:25 PM
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Do you only boulder? Try routes if you are looking to achieve exhaustion. Bouldering there is too much rest between problems usually to get muscle failure. If you want to be a better climber, work on longer problems that are at or near your limit. Working on technique when tired is one of the things that takes time to master.
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bighead
Jun 28, 2004, 9:17 PM
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Climb harder problems! When I climb a problem or route above my normal onsight level I get pumped a lot faster, as do most climbers. If I'm climbing something easily in my range I can stay on it for a long time without much of a pump. I get the biggest pump when I'm flailing around on something well above my normal level.
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muncher
Jun 28, 2004, 10:54 PM
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You are never going to get stronger if your workouts are going for that long. You can't possibly keep the intensity high enough for 3, 4 or 5 hours. No wonder you aren't increasing your strength, all you are doing is working endurance. The only way you can increase your maximum strength is to work at your limit. There is now way you can still be at that point after 2 or 3 hours let alone 4 or 5. Ideally you should finish a max strength/power workout still feeling relatively fresh. Over do it and your intensity will drop, thus you will achieve nothing but increasing the amount of time it will take to recover.
My advice is:
Get Eric Horst's Book "Training for Climbing".
Increase the intensity of your workouts and decrease the volume.
Make sure you are compeltely fresh before a session and give yourself at least one day off to recover, even if you feel ok.
Adding wieght is fine, just do it properly, see Training for Climbing for some detailed instructions or at least check the website.
Take a a reasonable amount of time (3 to 5 mins) to rest between sets of whatever you are working.
Isolate your weaknesses and work them.
Strength training isn't best trained by just climbing alone (depending on what level you are at.
Don't blame every failure on lack of strength, very often it is other factors such as technique, strategy and mental factors that cause you to waste energy and come off. Being more efficient may be more beneficial than getting stronger.
Good luck
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davep
Jun 29, 2004, 1:29 PM
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training to muscular failure is a waste of time. It equals more recovery time, thus less time on the rock in the long run. Like the guy above says you can't expect ot train power for several hours. got for 2 hours of high quality work, you shoudl not be fucked the day after. you should be able to train power more or less every day.
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muncher
Jun 29, 2004, 10:32 PM
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In reply to: training to muscular failure is a waste of time. It equals more recovery time, thus less time on the rock in the long run. Like the guy above says you can't expect ot train power for several hours. got for 2 hours of high quality work, you shoudl not be f--- the day after. you should be able to train power more or less every day.
The only reasonable thing said here is that you can't train power for several hours. The rest is complete bollox. Training to failure is not a waste of time, you just have to do it correctly. You should take at least one day off after a max strength/power session. You should finish the session while you are still feeling relatively strong but for sure the next day you are going to feel sore. Rest is hugely important. If you try and train strenght/power every day you will go down hill pretty fast.
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davep
Jun 30, 2004, 8:09 AM
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ok what i should have said is that you shouldn't have to rest the day after training power - if you are always sore then theres something wrong. I still stand by the fact that training to failure is a waste of time - this is why you feel sore. If you think that is bollocks then i suggest you read some of the training articles by Marius Morstad, who advises people like Malc Smith and Ben Moon on thier training. But what does he know eh, his advice only helps Malc get up font 8c so it must be bollocks right?
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overzealous
Jun 30, 2004, 12:34 PM
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Training to failure routinely is NOT the best way to obtain maximum recruitment (i.e. strength). Failure taxes the central nervous system excessively and equates to a longer recovery period, with only a marginal increase in strength.
Occasionally training to failure is ideal...but be intelligent about it. Look at the lifting schemes used by completive power lifters and you’ll see that they do NOT kill themselves in every workout. While they are training for difference movements (and are not as concerned with strength/weight as pure strength) we could still learn a lot from their methods. The key is progressive resistance, not pounding yourself into the ground every time you work out.
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