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mustclimb69
Mar 10, 2004, 3:19 PM
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I have always used a reverso for top belaying a second but recently saw a gri gri being used. I was wondering who has used one and the possibility of the cam not engaging during poor weather, Ice and caving and such. It appears that the angle placed on the device makes it impossible for you to use the friction lip incase the cam sticks.
I know this is a slim chance but Im curious if thisis standard practice anywhere?
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deleted
Deleted
Mar 10, 2004, 3:24 PM
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the grigri is a heavy piece of iron. stick with the reverso.
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fitz
Mar 10, 2004, 7:47 PM
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The Gri Gri is great for a guide taking someone up a trade route. Unlike a Reverso, it releases easily. And, you are always just a runner and biner away from hauling...
But as the previous poster pointed out, it is heavy. And, as you pointed out, it is complicated.
Although it can twist the rope, I often use a Munter hitch to belay the second directly off the anchor.
-jjf
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jammin
Mar 10, 2004, 8:33 PM
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I use a gri-gri quite often to belay a second. Yes it is slightly heavier but the one big advantage I have found is that you can safely lower someone with it. This is sometimes useful when you second falls and needs to be lowered a few feet to get back onto the wall.
Besides, if you're doing a mutlipitch climb you already have quite a bit of gear. What's another couple hundred grams?
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deleted
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Mar 10, 2004, 8:53 PM
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[i:47e0813d7e]okay[/i:47e0813d7e] ... so you can safely lower your second with a grigri. just how is this different from every [i:47e0813d7e]other[/i:47e0813d7e] belay device out there?
howsabout, say, [i:47e0813d7e]rappelling[/i:47e0813d7e]? how's the grigri for rappelling? you mentioned it's just "another couple hundred grams" ... do we now need [i:47e0813d7e]another[/i:47e0813d7e] device for rapping?
it's a heavy piece of iron with limited capabilities. atc's, jaws, sticht plates, tubers, figure-8s or munter hitches -- in the hands of a capable belayer -- are more versatile.
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jtcronk
Mar 10, 2004, 9:50 PM
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Gri-Gri's are great in a climbing gym, and maybe even roadside cragging...that's about it..... :cry:
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csoles
Mar 10, 2004, 10:15 PM
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In reply to: okay ... so you can safely lower your second with a grigri. just how is this different from every other belay device out there? howsabout, say, rappelling? how's the grigri for rappelling? you mentioned it's just "another couple hundred grams" ... do we now need another device for rapping? it's a heavy piece of iron with limited capabilities. atc's, jaws, sticht plates, tubers, figure-8s or munter hitches -- in the hands of a capable belayer -- are more versatile.
I'd bet 8 out of 10 climbers using a Reverso don't know how to lower a climber hanging in space once it's locked. A Gigi is a bit easier. A Grigri is tons easier.
The Grigri is great for rapping on a single rope; fantastic if you and a partner simulrap.
But if you belay the second off the anchor and rig the Grigri wrong, it won't lock. And it is heavy. And it's unreliable with wet, icy ropes. And idiots can screw up anything (including all the other belay options)...show me a better foolproof device and I'll show you a better fool.
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skiclimb
Mar 10, 2004, 10:37 PM
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I'm pretty much a fan of only two belay devices...The Tuber or the Gri-Gri...I guess you could add the more exotic silent partner for soloing...Then there is the munter hitch when you forget something or are doing just a bit of technical stuff on an alpine trip...
The tuber is all you ever need in a tiny unit...the gri-gri however allows my partner to fall asleep safely on those latenighter bigwall sufferfests.
always double check everything
belaying from above with a gri-gri is fine...do something stupid and being 10 ft off the deck can be deadly...
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okinawatricam
Mar 10, 2004, 11:37 PM
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Even in long rappels the Grigri is great for rappelling. Setting up the rappel requires one extra knot and a locking binner.
A few years ago, the British caving organization did some test on the Grigri to see if it could hold up to the harsh environment in caves (Mud, water, grime) the device passed with flying colors.
I was skeptical at first, but now that I have used the Grigri for several years, I have found it to be an indispensable tool. Sure other devices are lighter, but few are as versatile.
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gds
Mar 10, 2004, 11:39 PM
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IMHO the choce of belay method is a combination of the situation and personal preference. All the devices work fine when used correctly. I don't find any of them to be that complex-even lowering a weighted climber with a Reverso or Gi Gi can be learned in a relatively short while. (There is a very good article on this process on the USMGA website)
My preference -- whenever possible belay directly off the anchor because it will result on less load on the anchor than a redirected belay in case of a fall and I never like to belay directly off my waist. And if my partner is strong and not likely to fall a muenter hitch is fast and effective. If I think there is a good chance of my partner falling then I prefer the Reverso. I'm happy to use the Gri Gri but as other posters have metnioned it is heavy and not usefull for double rope rappels so I tend to not carry it often on longer routes. I have also used a tuber off the anchor which can be done by redirecting the belay through another biner above the device.
I don't find the arguments about complexity very convincing as it is just a matter of practice. But to each their own as all of the devices work!
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david.yount
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Mar 17, 2004, 12:23 PM
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I choose a GriGri for belaying a second, often.
I belay from my waist, redirected up to the anchor. I'm not concerned about the 1.6 multiplier of redirecting the rope because the force my second might generate in a fall is insignificant compared to the force generated by a lead fall onto those same anchors. Of course, when I lead off a belay on trad gear I sink in a bomber piece ASAP to clip before venturing far above the belay. But, that first piece off the belay may fail in a lead fall.
Then, my fall comes onto the anchor. An anchor must be strong enough to sustain the largest possible force it may ever see (poorly quoted from memory from John Long, Anchors).
So, if I'm climbing safely then my anchor will sustain a lead fall, by design. And therefore a redirected fall of a second climber is close to trivial.
Often I connect 2 or 3 pitches together with my 70-meter rope, and even with liberal use of double-length slings - 48-inch loop - the rope drag is apparent. The GriGri belayed off my waist makes body hauling the rope drag almost pleasant. It sure is a fine way to stay warm while ascending Cascade peaks in minimum clothing.
And last week my partner and I simulrapped 15 pitches (23-pitch sport route by Leland Windham, Infinite Bliss on Mt Garfield in Washington). The GriGri makes simple work of such technique.
The weight is trivial to me. I like the tool so I bring the tool. I definately watch the ounces and even the grams; comprehensively. But some items are worth bringing in spite of their less than petite mass. Besides, I'm 9% body fat so I've got many pounds headstart on most climbers.
Also, it makes a great 'rock' for banging on a nut tool to dislodge stubborn pro.
David.
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david.yount
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Mar 17, 2004, 8:58 PM
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Yes, the cam's friction can be a little tricky to modulate smoothly, but it shouldn't result in a drop of severlal feet. Of course, for lowering supersmoothly with a GriGri I've found a piggyback carabiner brake absolutely wonderful.
When I rap, I descend casually. In my 20's and 30's I enjoyed the silky smooth speed rap with Figure-8's. But now with age I prefer a casual descent; it gives me plenty of time to observe the end(s) of the rope(s), admire the scenery as my persecptive changes with elevation, and scope out the rap route and upcoming anchors. Maybe it's all in the name of increased safety; my GriGri doesn't heat up much when singleline rapping.
The extra weight is real but the powerful utility of the GriGri is worth it. To me.
David.
PS I _never_ leave behind #4 if I might need it ;)
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overlord
Mar 18, 2004, 8:15 AM
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grigri can be used to belay a second or TR, but reverso is LIGHTER.
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roughster
Mar 18, 2004, 8:48 AM
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I also single line rap on a gri gri as well. Never had an issue with heat, just take it easy on it. I use the gri gri as my primary belay and rap device pretty much 100% of the time. I'll take a Tube along on long routes as a back up.
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okinawatricam
Mar 18, 2004, 10:11 AM
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The gri gri is my primary device too. I like the added safety it offer and weight isn't that big of an issue.
My back up device is a stich plate, maybe that's showing my age.
About that route in washington, how was it. I have to drive to Seatle this summer and will have some time to climb. How long is the approach, how's the routes,
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david.yount
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Mar 22, 2004, 9:32 PM
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In reply to: About that route in washington, how was it. I have to drive to Seatle this summer and will have some time to climb. How long is the approach, how's the routes,
Infinite Bliss, Mt Garfield, Washington - I'll post a TR in a week, have solid beta to share. First 15 pitches: average 140 feet each, mostly 5.6 granite slab climbing, some 5.10A/B vertical face.
David.
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petzlhanger721
Mar 23, 2004, 7:37 PM
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I do like the Gri Gri very much. It does add a good deal of weight but the truth is that you wont find a easier no brain decender. I use it for my girlfriend because she belays me and there is a ggod deal of weight diff so its muc easier for her. But for my self i just use a atc-xp. its basic and it just works well all around light and simple what more could you ask for.......
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frosty
Jun 28, 2004, 9:55 PM
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What about belaying a heavier person :?:
Is it awkwoard for a lefty to lower someone :?:
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billydude
Jun 28, 2004, 10:16 PM
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the gri gri is great for belaying a second. it allows you to hold them if the start hang doging and inspires confidence in the second because the know as long as your taking in slack it wont fail. also with a gri gri youre allowed more movement on your belay ledge, which is nice if you dont have one. you can have one hand free to snap some photos of your freind pulling hard!
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nthusiastj
Jun 28, 2004, 10:39 PM
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I use mine for bringing up the second and have even rapped off of it. I love it and have never had any problems. I can't speak for anything besides a wet rope though. I will be getting one of the lighter weight and thinner rope alternatives (cinch) in the future though.
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korporal
Jun 28, 2004, 10:42 PM
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I used to use a gri-gri to belay from above (Otter Cliffs, Square Ledge) directly off the anchor. I liked the simpler motion to belay than if it were off my waist (I am fluent both ways, this was just easier) but I did not like how it was relying on the cam so much. Then I started to use a redirected belay with the gri-gri. I didn't like the motion as much as when I belayed directly off the anchor. I stoped using the gri-gri (it was my partner's anyway) and started using my reverso. So far no complaints.
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