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far_east_climber
Oct 21, 2004, 2:54 AM
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I have seen this mentioned a couple times. What I don't understand is if someone says 'I always rap my lead line', how is that possible if the pitch is 100ft+? You would have to rap down your haul line to reach the the anchors on a long pitch. So are the people that say this only doing short pitches? or is there some other solo technique I am unaware of.
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petsfed
Oct 21, 2004, 3:03 AM
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Three words: Single Line Rappel
If you dont' have to pull the rope when you're done, there's no reason to do a double rope rappel.
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far_east_climber
Oct 21, 2004, 3:10 AM
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I mean when you are soloing a route. You can't do a single line rappel if you only have 1 rope on a 200ft pitch and that 1 rope is attached to the anchors below. So what I am asking is, how can people rap their lead lines 'all the time' (as I have read) if some pitches are longer than half a rope length (i.e. 100 - 200ft)
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catbiter
Oct 21, 2004, 3:24 AM
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That is a good question. My only answer is: My wife usually can not second the climbs that I lead. Therefore I have to climb small ones that I can rap down with one rope. If there is another way I would love to know about it.
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theishofoz
Oct 21, 2004, 3:29 AM
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take 2 ropes and tie one to annother with one end of the rope going thru the rapp rings and then tied to the other and the other rope going straight down. rapp the ropes then pull the end with the knot side.
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vegastradguy
Oct 21, 2004, 3:58 AM
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when you are soloing a route, your lead line is fixed to the anchor at the bottom of the pitch. you climb the pitch (say its 190'). you get to anchor. you build anchor. you fix (tie a fig-8 on a bight) to your top anchor. you then single line rappel on the lead line (cleaning as you go, depending)back down to your lower anchor. you clean your lower anchor, then jug the line back to the highpoint (cleaning if necessary). repeat.
of course, if you're on a wall, then this scenario may vary greatly, depending on the pitch. what is outlined above is a basic scenario assuming a more or less straight pitch for 190'.
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kachoong
Oct 21, 2004, 4:01 AM
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....not sure I totally understand the question....
Scenario:
You've lead an overhanging pitch to 2/3 length of the rope and short of the anchors. You're four pitches already above the ground, it's getting dark and you want to return to the portaledge for the night.
You're belayer cannot lower you, as there is not enough rope left.
Is it here you would want to rap your own lead line, keeping the lead rope at its high point?
edit: sorry, realised you're on solo....
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far_east_climber
Oct 21, 2004, 4:03 AM
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Do you reckon it would be worth bringing a static line (10mm) to fix at the top of each pitch, so once the route is cleaned on rappel, the climber can jug back up on the static/haul line instead of bucking and yawing the lead line over the rock and causing unnecessary wear on the lead rope?
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kachoong
Oct 21, 2004, 4:08 AM
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In reply to: Do you reckon it would be worth bringing a static line (10mm) to fix at the top so once the route is cleaned on rappel, the climber can jug back up on the static/haul line instead of bucking and yawing the lead line over many edges and causing unnecessary wear on the lead rope.
....How is it you can rap on the lead line when it is fixed tight at the bottom? Unless you fix the anchor with slack in the system to enable a 'snag/friction' free descent.
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far_east_climber
Oct 21, 2004, 4:18 AM
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Thanks for the replies. So the conclusion is... fix the lead line with enough slack to descend, clean on descent, then jug back up on the lead line to the top anchors. However, I have one question regarding personal choice... would it be excessive to jug the haul line if the lead rope is over a nasty edge and you can see visible abrasion taking place on the lead rope? I would rather have the haul line take the beating.
If there is something blindingly obvious in anyone's post that I have not picked up on... don't beat me.
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kachoong
Oct 21, 2004, 4:26 AM
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In reply to: ... would it be excessive to jug the haul line if the lead rope is over a nasty edge and you can see visible abrasion taking place on the lead rope? I would rather have the haul line take the beating. |
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holdplease2
Oct 21, 2004, 5:44 AM
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Far east climber:
Often you cannot rap your lead line easily because a pitch wanders, overhangs, or traverses. (It can be done but it often is a time consuming pain in the ass) In that case (and, in fact, usually if you have a haul line) you rap your haul line then jug your lead line to clean as you go.
-Kate.
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glockaroo
Oct 21, 2004, 3:31 PM
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No, don't clean on the rappel. You're just increasing the workload cuz you'll have to jug the whole pitch w/ that gear, or add it to your hauling load. You've already raised that mass once by leading with it clipped to your rack.
It's kind of a moot point anyway most of the time, since the pitch often overhangs or leans too much to clean on the way down.
Using load-release knots (backed up, of course) its no problem to get the haul line ready for hauling then rap the haul line to the belay. Extra long ropestretcher pitches sometimes call for improvisation.
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flamer
Oct 21, 2004, 6:05 PM
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The only time(s) I DON'T rap my lead line and clean on rappel are when the route won't allow it....as Kate said if it traverse's(alot), or if it's EXTEMELY overhanging.
I find it faster, and more convient. If I'm doing a route where I'm not hauling, but need a second line I usually leave it in a pack and jug with it. This is faster, and less of a pain due to the fact that you don't have to deal with an additional rope/tag line.
Does this method create more "work"??? SLIGHTLY!! But what are you? Someone who wants to climb stronger in the future? Or something else....certain words come to mind but I'll hold them back.
josh
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iamthewallress
Oct 21, 2004, 11:43 PM
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In reply to: Thanks for the replies. So the conclusion is... fix the lead line with enough slack to descend, clean on descent, then jug back up on the lead line to the top anchors. However, I have one question regarding personal choice... would it be excessive to jug the haul line if the lead rope is over a nasty edge and you can see visible abrasion taking place on the lead rope? I would rather have the haul line take the beating. If there is something blindingly obvious in anyone's post that I have not picked up on... don't beat me.
If you have lowered out the haul bag and the haul line is tensioned, you won't be able to back up on the haul line, and the bag may be some seriously unpleasant balast dragging you into the wall or swinging you around. Furthermore, if you have to lower the bag out very far, you'll have to lower yourself out with it. Scaaarrreeey. (But doable if need be.)
If you are worried about an edge, you can fix the lead line to a good piece below the edge so that the rope is not weighted over that edge untill just before you get to it. You can even do this on lead...one of the bonuses of soloing...since the rope isn't being pulled through the pieces but from the other side of them.
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glockaroo
Oct 22, 2004, 2:17 PM
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In reply to: ...If I'm doing a route where I'm not hauling, but need a second line I usually leave it in a pack and jug with it. This is faster, and less of a pain due to the fact that you don't have to deal with an additional rope/tag line. Does this method create more "work"??? SLIGHTLY!! But what are you? Someone who wants to climb stronger in the future? Or something else....certain words come to mind but I'll hold them back. josh
Wow, "flamer" is the right username for you. I'm so glad that you're holding back such powerful "certain" words. I'm not sure I could handle them shooting through the internet at me. You young-bucks sure pack a punch.
Rap-cleaning is no big deal on pitches with lots of clean gear that's often spaced widely due to A1 placements & leapfrogging. But my experience is that rap-cleaning is less efficient on more involved nailing pitches, especially where multiple placements involve 2 or 3 stacked pins + tieoffs + screamers, and where you've left gear in at every available point. That weight adds up in a hurry, and I decline to move it up the wall twice.
Maybe it's because I'm not as strong as I used to be, but as a soloist I tend to conserve energy as best I can.
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flamer
Oct 22, 2004, 3:06 PM
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In reply to: Wow, "flamer" is the right username for you. I'm so glad that you're holding back such powerful "certain" words. I'm not sure I could handle them shooting through the internet at me. You young-bucks sure pack a punch.
Wow!! You're sure original!! Flamer the right name for me!!!!HaHa!!! You're so funny!!!
If you can't handle jugging with alittle extra stuff maybe you should stay on the couch.
josh
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karlbaba
Oct 24, 2004, 7:16 AM
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If you're hauling, and you therefore have a haul line. I don't see that rapping the lead line makes much sense. Not only do you have to jug back up with more weight, but the pieces that are holding the rope against the wall also make jugging easier. (if it's overhanging)
If it's so easy that you can afford to make it more exercise on yourself, have at it!
Getting an edge proof rope like a stratos will ease your rope cuttting fears greatly and you won't have to make the stone ugly with duck tape. (a rather new blight on walls in my experience)
How many aid pitches are straight up and low angle anyway? Might as well dial a system that you can do consistently.
When I've rope soloed free climbing, I rap the lead line cause that's probably all I brought, and it's easier to clean on rap than when I'm freeclimbing the pitch again. Then the angle is usually low enough to deal with any issue.
peace
karl
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goober
Oct 26, 2004, 2:58 AM
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After reading a hell of alot of incorrect answers that were obviously due to misunderstanding the inquiry, thank God, or Karlbaba for an intelligent response.
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