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blueeyedclimber
Oct 28, 2004, 1:21 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: If you want to become a trad leader, I would suggest *against* starting with sport climbing. Better to start on trad climbs where you are well within your safety range in terms of physical difficulty, and can just focus on placing gear, sling lengths, etc. By the way, I had followed only perhaps one or two pitches before I started leading, but I mostly kept the leads down in the 5.2-5.5 range until I had a lot more experience under my belt (including seconding a lot of experienced leaders). GO And I also agree with this. Although this is how most climbers progressions go...(tr, sport, trad), myself included, sport climbing does nothing to prepare you for trad. It is very separate. You may argue that it will help you with your lead head, but they are not even in the same ballpark. Sport climbing is great and I love it, but they are apples and oranges. Josh I disagree. Sport climbing won't help you learn gear placements at all, but it will help your climbing, and get you a lot stronger. That strength will help you out when you're trying to place a piece from a crappy stance.
Toproping does the same thing, but I don't hear an argument for that. Strength is never the limiting factor in trad climbing. I agree that that by developing the strenght and technique in sport climbing will raise your trad climbing potential, just because you climb 5.whatever does noty mean you will ever be a strong trad climber. There are too many other factors to consider.
So, sport and tr are good supplements, I disagree that it should necessarily be the natural progression. I have seen way too much complacency in those that do not translate very well to trad.
Josh
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skateman
Oct 28, 2004, 2:48 PM
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Chugar,
I've been climbing for two seasons (years) now. I just started leading trad this past June.
My approach was to go on a few guided climbs. The guided climbs got me hooked. At the same time I was learning gear placement and rope management skills. When I finally started to lead on my own it was exhillarating to say the least. Yes, there were some mini epics at first, there still are on occasion. But the freedom of being able to climb when and where you want can not be denied. Be sure to use equal amounts of common sense and caution when you are starting out. Try to avoid awkward/sandbag routes until you gain the confidence and cool nerves to master such routes.
Reading John Longs book or Freedom of the Hill's will definitely come in handy. If you can find an experienced mentor who will critque your gear and anchors, even better!
Good luck Brutha!
S
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caughtinside
Oct 28, 2004, 3:58 PM
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Hmm, strength never the limiting factor in trad climbing? I hadn't considered that. But consider this: strength can get you out of a lot of jams. A lot.
And toproping just isn't that much fun. :P
I do agree, sport climbing before tradclimbing is no prerequisite. But I do think it can help to understand life on the sharp end. You can see what it's like to be gripped when you're five feet above your pro, even if it is a fatty bolt.
Besides, if you start trad climbing, you run the risk of someone on this forum telling you to climb with no cams! :P :P
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thomaskeefer
Oct 28, 2004, 4:21 PM
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Two of the three books, MFOH and CA, are great and I assume the third is great as well.. there is another great book out there called Gym to Crag that talks alot about things you need to know before you get into a multipitch effort outside. It has a photo on red background for the cover and I would definitly reccomend it.
As for when to start.. the old advice never test your leading limits and your gear limits on the same climb!!
And NEVER follow the advice that you should start to lead totally on a passive rack. It is unsafe advice that is no more than spray from the issuer and actually probably borderline irresponsibility on their part!
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holmeslovesguinness
Oct 28, 2004, 4:53 PM
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Given that you are transitioning from the gym to the great outdoors, getting some sport leads under your belt before jumping onto your first gear route might not be a bad idea. This will definitely help give you a better 'feel' for what leading on real rock is all about.
Another thing to consider is that many gym / sport climbers are ill-prepared for trad climbing simply because they lack crack-climbing skills. I think that for most people it takes longer to learn to crack climb efficiently than it does to place good gear. Practice jamming various crack sizes on TR or as a second before you jump on to a pumpy sustained crack route.
Beyond that, choose your first couple of routes with an eye to how well they protect as well as the actual grade. Do a little research and find some nice easy straight up single pitch lines that you can totally sew up with solid gear.
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uwmeghan
Nov 10, 2004, 3:34 AM
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Hey, I'm not really experienced, but I did just do my first trad lead this summer, and I haven't been climbing for very long. I haven't done anything hard, because you are right, placing the gear is the challenge, and for awhile just make sure that's your only challenge. If you get a chance, Seneca Rocks Mountain Guides had an awesome course which made me a lot more comfortable with trad leading, but I'm not sure where you are at or if that would even be an option. If you understand the concepts, my feeling was that it all it took from there was experience. Pulling gear is nice, but don't just follow one person, because then all you learn is their system. Develop your own, leading is like everything else in climbing, you do it your own way, just make sure it's all thought out and as safe as that situation can be.
Good luck!
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gobotrocker
Nov 21, 2004, 2:31 AM
Post #57 of 59
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Registered: May 16, 2004
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[quote="caughtinside"]Hmm, strength never the limiting factor in trad climbing? I hadn't considered that. But consider this: strength can get you out of a lot of jams. A lot.
Physical strength can't help when your'e emotionally gripped, from lack of experience or just an off day.
I learned 75% on my own, picking up some stuff along the way.
I did however embrace the fact that I AM RESPONSIBLE for myself and my second. It's up to me to make sure I know what I need to know. If that means a paid teacher, so be it, I swear by anchor building with 2 feet on the ground, I've done that 100's of times.
The Gym cannot teach you how to use your'e shoes, I've always believed that any aspiring leader needs to be solid on thier feet. No substitute for real rock.
The best piece of safety gear I have is my clear sober head and all the knowledge I have gained over the years. It's a learning process. Embrace the process. It's more fun than Asteroid's
We all progress at our own rate.
A Leader consults his friends, guide books, his gut, the forecast and a host of other things before committing to a lead.
A Leader makes thier own decisions.
Please do take it seriously.
And have FUN!
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ryan112ryan
Nov 22, 2004, 2:50 AM
Post #58 of 59
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In reply to: I participated in a rescue several years ago because 2 brothers were leading 5.3 multi pitch and didn't know what they were doing. One died, one is paralyzed for life. They didn't know what a good anchor was and found out 4 pitches up.
ive been toproping for a bit now, but its stories like this that scare the crap outta me and make me second guess when i should start transitioning to trad leading.
also first time, mabye try setting up a Top rope as a back up, but keep some slack in the system so if you fall and your last peice blows youll walk away just shaken
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tao-buddha
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Nov 22, 2004, 3:18 AM
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Sorry if this has been recommended already, I just don't have the patience to read this whole thread.
Learn how to place your gear on the ground from somebody who's bulletproof, then hop on tr with your rack and start placing gear with long slings and biner attached. Clip the biner to your belay loop while still tied in. Ask for slack, and fall. Test it, build trust in your placement.
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