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j_freak
May 29, 2002, 5:35 AM
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anyone on this site a Christian? LET'S SPEAK OUT!! when i go climbing, it seems as if i have to put up with a lot of crap from people buggin' me about being a Christian when they find out that i am a Christian. i find it a good way to witness, but how do you guys find the strength to keep going?
[ This Message was edited by: j_freak on 2002-05-28 22:36 ]
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duskerhu
May 29, 2002, 5:43 AM
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Speak out a little NOW...
If you're climbing and minding your own bee's wax, why would anyone give you "crap" about being a Christian???
What exactly are you refering to when you say Christian by the way. I am Christain, but knowone I've ever climbed with has ever even asked about my religion; which is fine.
What type of Christian are you??? Are you passing out Watchtowers at the crags? That might cause you to catch some "crap"...
Live Free!
Play Hard!
Climb On!
duskerhu
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rckfreek
May 29, 2002, 5:57 AM
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Well i can't say that i have gotten greife about it at the crag but religion has come up a few times at my local crag. It is kinda of an interesting place to whitness, because of the diverse group of people that are out there. But as to you duskerhu you don't have to be passing out tracts to show that you are a christian. And if you wouldn't be willing to show it or talk about it than you might want to re-think what you are calling your self.
Just my imput
- Rock Freek -
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duskerhu
May 29, 2002, 6:35 AM
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Well, it's not that I'm not willing to talk about it, I do. OR show it. It shows in my every action...
BUT, if he's gettin' "CRAP" about it, maybe he's being less of a Christian than he thinks.
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sickofla
May 29, 2002, 6:48 AM
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j_freak, i would hope that getting slammed for your faith only makes you stronger. remember that we can only plant seeds and that the ones that oppose the strongest are the ones that know they need god the most. show them love, be patient and let god work.
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gomgechuq
May 29, 2002, 6:52 AM
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by "witness" do you mean a good way to try and convert people? I guess if they start talking to you about it there is no problm, but i am really sick of missionaries. We get all kinds of people over here that come over and try to tell everybody that what they have believed for millenia is wrong and that they are going to hell, to them that is okay, but by law i am forbidden to teach about evolution in many classrooms in the southern US. i don' have a problem with chistianity (my whole family is christian) but i have a problem with people who take every conversation as an opportunity to tell me godhas a plan for me, but then don't want to listen when i use my turn to complain about biblical inconsistencies or the ridiculous history of the church. I guess is you are a christian, and insist on "witnessing" , know when you ar being offensive or unwanted and stop, also give the otherperson a chance to speak their mind. Even if (especially if) they disagree with you.
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climber_dude
May 29, 2002, 7:05 AM
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whoever gives your crap about your religon are sad people i too am christian but have never been dissed about my religon.
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spectral
May 29, 2002, 8:27 AM
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This is an interesting thread, but I think that religion is a personal issue. I don't see how being Christian should make any difference to other climbers or why it should cause you any grief (especially in this country).
Religious belief (or disbelief) should not dictate your climbing environment, but influence your own motivations and understanding. As far as Christianity is concerned, those who profess it should support a free and open climbing community, characterized by mutual respect, courtesy, and good beer.
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overlord
May 29, 2002, 8:45 AM
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i am not a christian and dont smack no one if he is
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bmgard
May 29, 2002, 8:47 AM
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I don't really belive in anything, but being out on top of a climb does make me feel close to what ever is out there. I've never seen any climber give another one crap about there religion, unless it efects when they can climb. As long as nobody bugs me about my belief i have no right to give them crap about theirs. It is everyones right to belive what they want. We are all climbers and we should share in this bond and not focus negativly on our differances. After all the thing i most enjoy about climbing is meeting all the different people from diferent walks of life.
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newbieclimber
May 29, 2002, 11:58 AM
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im pretty sure they dont allow christians in joshua tree. what about yosemite? its time to take a stand.
i know a lot of my friends have given up climbing because they just didnt have the strength to keep on going.
[ This Message was edited by: newbieclimber on 2002-05-29 05:01 ]
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rippdclimber
May 29, 2002, 12:58 PM
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duskerhu,
amen brother
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spank_spank
May 29, 2002, 1:23 PM
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Anybody here anti-religious. LETS SPEAK OUT!!!. Why is it everytime I go to a crag people have to beat religion over my head. Leave me alone. I don't want to hear about it. If I wanted to hear about it, I would go to church.
Before you start to bash me and say I am going to hell. Let me state how I feel. I believe in God. I do not believe in religion. Especially organized religion. This is how I feel and any type of Jesus Freak or any other freak is not going to change my mind. I believe if God look down on this Earth, there would be a slow shake of the head sadly on how religion has developed.
Am I going to heaven now?
There is only one person who is going to judge me and its not you.
The God I believe in, respects my beliefs.
Peace out.
[ This Message was edited by: spank_spank on 2002-05-29 06:54 ]
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howitzer
May 29, 2002, 1:39 PM
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This sure is an interesting one... I've never experienced any one at the crag, or elsewhere for that matter, who was outright making their religion obvious to those around them. How did these folks find out you are Christian? If you are quietly going about your business then how did this all come about? Personally if someone at the crag was spraying about religion or more specifically Christianity, they would be bound to get a lot of flack because it's not something that needs to be discussed there. It's like the door to door bible salesman showing up at the rocks. No need, nuff said. If, however, you were recieving flack just because you wear a cross around your neck, then its unnecessary towards you and you should just ignore people that are going to be like that.
EDIT: Amen Spank! Organized religion is the devil incarnate
[ This Message was edited by: howitzer on 2002-05-29 06:46 ]
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clymber
May 29, 2002, 1:41 PM
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If you belive in god or want to pray to a tree thats all fine and dandy to me and i have no problems with it. If you start to push your views and beliefs onto me thats when i get a bit pissy about it all. I dont give you my views and thoughts on it all so keep yours to yourself.
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cedk
May 29, 2002, 1:45 PM
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I'm with Spank on this one. Well said!
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dsafanda
May 29, 2002, 2:05 PM
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This is site is devoted to conversation about rockclimbing. If you insist on making your religious belief the focus of a forum posting I think you risk alienating a lot of people and really doing a diservice to the site. Perhaps I'm wrong though and I'm the only one put off by a post titled "Climbing for God".
Then again, as I write this I'm reconsidering. I climb for a lot of reasons and I'll be honest...not one of those reasons is God. However, if that is really is why you climb I guess you should be able to share that with others.
Ok...my two cents. I'm going back to real climbing conversation.
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rckfreek
May 29, 2002, 2:25 PM
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I see many of you talking about christains pushing their beleifes out at the crag. I can honestly say that i have never seen that done at my crag. It has come up in conversation before and i have had a few good discousions with people but i don't think that it would be considered pushing cause they were grooving with the conversation as well.
As per gomgechuq comment, i would love to here about some of the inconsitancys that you are speeking of.
If anyone wants to reply but feels this is too much on an open forum please PM me.
- Rock Freek -
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sauron
May 29, 2002, 2:33 PM
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dsafanda,
Quote:
Perhaps I'm wrong though and I'm the only one put off by a post titled "Climbing for God".
And yet, you felt this intense urge to reply to the thread?
What a put off. Really.
I'm christian - albeit somewhat of a rebellious one - I'm not big on organized religion, but I do go to church - I find the fellowship and worshipping with others very rewarding.
I can see what j_freak means with being harassed for his faith - I got a lot of that back when I lived overseas - the other kids over there didn't take too kindly to people who had any (strong) religious beliefs..
j_freak, have strength, brother.. It's not supposed to be easy - but in the end, it's all worth it.
On the topic of being harassed/harassing - I haven't ever pushed my religious beliefs on someone else - now, if people are interested in talking about it, they're more than welcome to do so - but I don't sit(stand) there, and beat my beliefs into them. We each have our own opinion, and you don't have to agree with me.
duskerhu, you made the comment "BUT, if he's gettin' "CRAP" about it, maybe he's being less of a Christian than he thinks." - why would others harassing him make him less of a christian?
newbieclimber, seems I've illegally been in Joshua Tree then..
And I'm sure I'll catch flack for this post as well - but that's okay, I'm used to it.
- d.
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dsafanda
May 29, 2002, 2:56 PM
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Sorry, I didn't realize the rule of the forum was that you are only supposed to reply when you agree with the post.
You are right in that I said "I'm put off by this topic." So what? I can't voice that opinion? In what way is that giving you crap?
Ugh!!! The thought police have arrived in strengh on this site!
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veilneb
May 29, 2002, 3:03 PM
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This forum thread should be locked by an administrator.
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rockwomyn
May 29, 2002, 3:12 PM
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i'm with the ooze....why don't you all go beat this dead horse on www.ilovejesus.com.
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veilneb
May 29, 2002, 3:13 PM
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What has been the end result of this conversation? I think the best way to judge the effect of something is to stand back and watch the ripples it creates. I don't think that this discussion has helped anyone to be a better person or climber or shed any good will amongst our community.
[ This Message was edited by: veilneb on 2002-05-29 08:14 ]
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clam
May 29, 2002, 3:22 PM
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I do everything for God. But I don't preach at the crag. St. Francis of Assisi said it. "Preach always, use words if necessary." I have never found it necessary to use words at the crag. I have found the most decent people there. The most important thing is to be what you are.
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krag
May 29, 2002, 3:28 PM
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This discussion seems like an attack of the Christian "Junkies" as described by William S Burroughs. People seem to get a fix off of being persecuted for how holy and righteous they are. In the end they are just obnoxious. If you annoy people it doesn't mean you are a better person, it just means you are annoying. There are plenty of beautiful things about christianity- but this is not a justification for how some evangelical people on this site are abusing it.
[ This Message was edited by: krag on 2002-05-29 08:29 ]
[ This Message was edited by: krag on 2002-05-29 08:38 ]
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