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livingtheedge
Dec 5, 2004, 5:48 PM
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What is sandbagging? From what i have read im guessing its the under rating of a problem due to the excessive amount of practice put into it and thus resulting in a seemingly easier assecnt do to (muscle memory).
Am i almost close or am i way off on this?
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sevrdhed
Dec 5, 2004, 5:58 PM
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Sandbagged routes are routes that are rated easier than they actually are.
The reason why a route is sandbagged doesn't matter. It could be what you described, it could be just that the people that rated it wanted to rate it lower to annoy people, it could be that they sucked at rating.
Steve
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overlord
Dec 5, 2004, 6:02 PM
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youre way off.
its just "poor" grading. mybe whoever rated it really felt it was that easy (used to the moves) or something.
and why even bother???
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curt
Dec 5, 2004, 6:09 PM
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Real sandbagging is intentional. Some 5.11 climber goes out and does a route that is at his limit and he then rates it 5.9 - that's sandbagging.
Curt
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sandbag
Dec 5, 2004, 6:28 PM
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Oh, never mind, i thought this was some interesting thread about me or doing something to me or with me. Carry on, nothing here to see.....
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overlord
Dec 5, 2004, 6:32 PM
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In reply to: Real sandbagging is intentional. Some 5.11 climber goes out and does a route that is at his limit and he then rates it 5.9 - that's sandbagging. Curt
ditto that. but well leave it to freud to figure out just why they do it :P
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angry
Dec 5, 2004, 6:44 PM
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What about the giggle test? A bunch of climbers give routes the lowest rating they can say out loud without laughing. That is the routes new rating.
Or there was this guy who climbed 5.9, anything he got up, was rated 5.9. Well he improved and some rather hard lines got rated 5.9. True story, from the lore of Vedauwoo.
Somethings are sandbags just because of lack of talent. Like what the hell is up with wide stuff in the valley, God I suck.
Whatever the reason, as long as the climb is protectable, sandbagging is a healthy, vibrant, and wonderful tradition that needs to continue.
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overlord
Dec 5, 2004, 6:47 PM
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In reply to: What about the giggle test? A bunch of climbers give routes the lowest rating they can say out loud without laughing. That is the routes new rating.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
that actually made me laugh... so is this now a 5.6???
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johnson6102002
Dec 5, 2004, 6:48 PM
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In reply to: Oh, never mind, i thought this was some interesting thread about me or doing something to me or with me. Carry on, nothing here to see..... |
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cgailey
Dec 5, 2004, 8:33 PM
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In reply to: Whatever the reason, as long as the climb is protectable, sandbagging is a healthy, vibrant, and wonderful tradition that needs to continue.
Yeah, there's nothing like getting halfway up a 5.8 and getting your arse handed to you on a plate... :roll:
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joeschmoe
Dec 7, 2004, 9:40 PM
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Sandbagging is a climbing tradition that needs to continue on. I know when I can finally find a few new problems on that virgin rock they'll all be sandbagged atleast 1 if not 2 grades, but I guess thats the ethics I started with.
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sarcat
Dec 7, 2004, 10:27 PM
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You mean that last route I couldn't do was only a 5.9??? Man your crag sucks.
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grimpiperx
Dec 7, 2004, 10:32 PM
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Couldn't sandbagging a long trad route be potentially dangerous?
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lothartx
Dec 7, 2004, 10:51 PM
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Some gyms will sandbag so that when their climbers go out on real rock they'll most likely be better at similarly rated climbs.
Some other gyms do the exact opposite so that climbers in the gym get an ego boost.
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mattm
Dec 7, 2004, 11:25 PM
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In reply to: Some gyms will sandbag so that when their climbers go out on real rock they'll most likely be better at similarly rated climbs. Some other gyms do the exact opposite so that climbers in the gym get an ego boost.
This is very true - My gym sandbags which, although annoying, is good in the long run. Nothing like projecting the 11b in the gym only to on sight 11b TRAD outside. Booyah!
The soft gym are ultimately doing a disservice to people
Accurate would be nice but thats hard at best to do
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dingus
Dec 7, 2004, 11:32 PM
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Kids these days got it so easy, a little disinformtion. Used to be sandbagging was REAL.
Back in the 50's in the Gunks they used real sandbags and they would throw them at their rivals as they attempted the latest testpieces.
Art Gran, a former semi-pro baseball player, was legendary for his accurate 50 foot throws as well as his wildly gesture-filled fireside reenactments. Its why they called him Art "The Move" Gran I believe.
DMT
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on_sight_man
Dec 7, 2004, 11:41 PM
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In reply to: This is very true - My gym sandbags which, although annoying, is good in the long run. Nothing like projecting the 11b in the gym only to on sight 11b TRAD outside. Booyah!
Which brings us to another term. "spray"
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chitown_coop
Dec 8, 2004, 12:32 AM
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In reply to: Some gyms will sandbag so that when their climbers go out on real rock they'll most likely be better at similarly rated climbs. Some other gyms do the exact opposite so that climbers in the gym get an ego boost.
My local sandbagging gym (Fitplex) used to really annoy me compared to the local ego boost gym. That is...until I got out on real rock and realized that a 5.6 was a lot tougher than I thought!
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mungeclimber
Dec 8, 2004, 1:25 AM
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Sandbaggin refers to how many sandbags can be attached to your harness and still climb 5.9+.
This represents an objective assessment of you ability to climb old skool style.
The problem is each sandbag weight varies by climbing region. Over time this got changed from blaming "I used to climb with 20lb" bags, to "He's just stronger" "Taller" "more powerful" etc and so on, so to this day no can agree on what a true sandbag problem is about.
That or roughly any climb rated 5.9+ and put up by folks that climbed in the 60s and 70s.
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petsfed
Dec 8, 2004, 1:31 AM
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In reply to: Or there was this guy who climbed 5.9, anything he got up, was rated 5.9. Well he improved and some rather hard lines got rated 5.9. True story, from the lore of Vedauwoo.
Sounds like Jaquot. Its even worse in the Snowies. There his grade of choice is 5.6. Could be 11b, but since he got up it, it must be 5.6. Dammit.
5.9 is also a safe bet for when a climb is hard, but not too hard and you're leary of going into double digits.
All but a few of the routes in the Snowies I've done were "9+" just because I'm not certain I can consistently onsight run out 5.10 moves. Keeps me honest in other facets, so it works out.
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jon06
Dec 8, 2004, 2:04 AM
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You guys are making me paranoid about rating routs. I am now questioning all the ratings I've ever stuck on a rout.
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chalked4dyno
Dec 8, 2004, 2:35 AM
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Sandbagging is a great way to avoid the severe ridicule that would ensue should you grade a problem harder than it really is.
"I onsight 11d... all FAs too.."
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mungeclimber
Dec 9, 2004, 11:31 PM
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no doubt, same here
"I climb v4plus, ... in the gym"
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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mattm
Dec 10, 2004, 12:01 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: This is very true - My gym sandbags which, although annoying, is good in the long run. Nothing like projecting the 11b in the gym only to on sight 11b TRAD outside. Booyah! Which brings us to another term. "spray"
Uhhmm - If I had said I project 5.9 in the gym and On-sight Trad .9 outside would it be "spray" still or not? What about 5.6? C'mmon and lighten up. If I had come in and said "Bow down to me because I just walked this super sick v whatever and am now god like" Yes, its spray.
Or - "Stop being a wus - 5.12 is easy. I did that climb as my warm up" Yes - spray as well.
Saying I project 11 inside and managed to OS a gear climb outside was a statement meant to illustrate how sandbagging inside might be good. I made no comment like"and it was EASY!" - in fact, I barely made it.
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