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talons05
Jun 7, 2002, 2:15 AM
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This may need to be in the beginners forum, but I felt it would do better here... (Correct me if I'm wrong)
I have been climbing for a while now (6 years) and I onsight trad at about 5.10
I have NEVER been ice climbing. I want to very badly. What all do I need? Where do I go? Etc...
A.W.
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wallhammer
Jun 7, 2002, 3:23 AM
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weel, you know most of it. (anchor principles, etc) my suggestion would be to borrow some gear and start out on top rope much like you do when you are learning to rockclimb. don't get all hyped up on which gear is best. a decent pair of axes, crampons, and boots will get you going and you can have some fun. after this, try placing pro (screws) on top rope to get the feel. when you feel comfortable doing that, start with a small lead. ouray is the place with major routes and instruction. let me know, you are more than welcome to borrow my gear and give it a spin. p.s. many of the chutes in the sierras are iced up for some decent 65 to 70 degree vertical AI pitches averaging 600 to 900 ft. edited to add the following.... you are also one bad mo fo if you are onsighting 5.10 trad!!!! that equals what, about 5.13 sport?
[ This Message was edited by: wallhammer on 2002-06-06 20:29 ]
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atg200
Jun 7, 2002, 3:03 PM
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I started ice climbing when I was flailing on 5.6 - rock climbing ability has very little do with ice.
Move back to Colorado. There is ice in the SE(especially in N Carolina), but it tends to be thin and have a short season.
Drop me a line if you get to Colorado this winter. No sense mortgaging your house buuying gear until you decide you like it.
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wallhammer
Jun 7, 2002, 3:36 PM
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I started ice climbing when I was flailing on 5.6 - rock climbing ability has very little do with ice.
well let me say i have much respect for atg but i might have to disagree on that one. rock and ice are very similar for instance
1. you are using almost all of the same muscles
2. your legs should be doing most of the work.
3. you look for moves just like on rock. contrary to popular belief, you dont just stick an axe or crampon anywhere on the ice. you look for small bulges or textures in the ice that would offer better placements.
4. on many routes in my area (even though it is not mixed climbing)nut and cam placements accompany ice screws for protection
5.technique will most of the time out perform strength.
maybe i was reading something into your post that was not there, because i know for fact that you have you act together and know what your talking about. stay cool, Len
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bradhill
Jun 7, 2002, 3:45 PM
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Most climbing shops in areas where ice climbing is common will rent you a setup.
To start out, you need ice tools, crampons, mountaineering boots (anything from Makalus on up- must have semi-rigid sole) and proper clothing.
There are often places where you can set up a toprope ice climb with slings and/or rock gear, so no need for ice screws right away. You won't be safe placing them anyway until you start to get a feel for the ice with your tools and feet.
As far as proper clothing, a helmet and goggles are ALWAYS a must. There will be lots of ice flying. Warm, waterproof gloves are also a must. Have a waterproof/breathable or microfiber shell layer and a synthetic belay coat you can throw on when not moving. There are lots of transitions between sweating and freezing.
You need a dry treated rope. Non-dry ropes will get wet and freeze up. Double ropes are nice if you have them; there's a lot of sharp stuff about to cut ropes.
For entry ice tools, I use Stubai Hornets from Pro Mountain Sports. They climb well (if not as well as Cobras) and only cost $80 each. The pick is fixed, but sturdy, and anyway you can break and replace the entire tool four times before you catch up to the cost of an average ice tool & replacement picks.
If you do decide to get ice screws, now (spring) is a good time to get them cheap, but don't skimp on quality. Don't ever buy screws without speed handles. For ice season I swap out my draws for screamers and carry one zipper (for the piece protecting the belay) and one ice scream.
Choice of crampons is not that big a deal for a beginning ice climber, except I will say that Sabretooths suck on vertical ice.
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atg200
Jun 7, 2002, 6:20 PM
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wallhammer - i made my point unclearly. it definitely helps to be a good rock climber, but it isn't a prerequisite. one of my partners in denver lead WI5 before ever leading a pitch of rock. basically i was trying to say that there isn't really a need to await until you lead 5.x before thinking about ice climbing.
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wallhammer
Jun 7, 2002, 11:20 PM
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atg, i kinda figured it was something like that. i got addiroids buddy phillip into ice and now he gone crazy.i wish i could go back to a 19 year olds fear factor level. look forward to sharing rope(s) with you someday.
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beyond_gravity
Jun 8, 2002, 2:18 AM
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Get someone who knows what there doing! I invent alot of my rock climbing techs, but on ice thats a very easy way to get youself killed! It's a whole differnt game. V-threads you find arn't allways safe, Ice quailty can be less then poor, and i've seen beginners set up an anchor on ice that is way unstable. Ice also breaks off, so if you place a screw is free haning ice...your screwed if that chunk breaks off. going from rock climbing to ice climbing is about the same step as going from Gym climbing to Outdoor rock climbing.
-Have Fun,
Jeremy
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graniteboy
Jun 8, 2002, 10:33 PM
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Ice climbing is several orders of magnitude more serious than most rock climbing. I partly agree with ATG that rock skills are not essential for learning ice. Nonetheless, rock skills come in very handy when you move from simple WI climbing to more complex mixed climbing. I haven't met anyone who can safely and competently lead real M5 or harder (not the sport kind) who is not also a solid traditional rock climber.
You must find a solid teacher.
And remember; the gear isn't as important as many would lead you to believe. It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools.
good luck. granite.
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bradhill
Jun 10, 2002, 5:30 PM
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I guess I should say one more thing about anchors for a beginner. You need to be careful setting up a toprope using ice anchors. For rock, you set it and forget it. For ice placements you must remember that they will melt out (Putting any weight on them accelerates this! Ever pulled a wire through an ice cube?) and need to be inspected on every top-out and probably re-set completely at least every couple of hours, more often depending on conditions. This is why it's better to use a tree or rock gear for a toprope.
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